Tales and Chronicles
Jewel of the North, formerly know as vincegetorix
A more polished 4e would be my answer too. A better presentation, monsters ala mm3 and some of the innovations from Essentials could make a great game
Given how completely gonzo that would be, I'd totally view that as OSR. Just need to add this guy:I originally read this as "4th Edition, but only with ducks" and I'm kind of into it.
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I am about to try it out. We are going to make a few characters each and see who makes it.What is opposite of OSR? Any game in which it's probable that you will survive past 3rd level.
I don't think that is true. FATE is a pretty traditional RPG system, Aspects notwithstanding. Just because the rules allow the players to define Aspects based on die results doesn't mean that they are arbiters of the rules. Players in FATE don't perform any adjudication, and that's the line between traditional RPG and other sorts.Ah, but FATE breaks the “DM is the arbitrator” tenet. Often players in FATE games decide and arbitrate.
That's a very unique take, I think.I don't think that is true. FATE is a pretty traditional RPG system, Aspects notwithstanding. Just because the rules allow the players to define Aspects based on die results doesn't mean that they are arbiters of the rules. Players in FATE don't perform any adjudication, and that's the line between traditional RPG and other sorts.
I kind of agree with @Reynard about FATE. I've run it, and players did not shift anything. They defined Aspects of a Scene, for example, but didn't have the currency to change the stakes -- that was up to me. It's similar to AD&D players deciding to smoke out a group of raiders hiding in a cave, instead of attacking them head-on. Is that letting the players be the arbitrator of the encounter?That's a very unique take, I think.
Not sure you entirely embraced the ruleset, then. Players should absolutely be changing the fiction in FATE -- create an advantage, for instance, is a clear invitation for the player to introduce new fiction that changes the situation. If this isn't happening, you're not engaged with the full ruleset. Which is entirely possible -- I've heard of people playing FATE that refused to ever compel an aspect and who fully prepped a FATE game like a D&D AP adventure. I mean, I guess you can do that if you're ignoring the ruleset and it's assumptions, but that doesn't actually mean FATE is like D&D because that's what you did.I kind of agree with @Reynard about FATE. I've run it, and players did not shift anything. They defined Aspects of a Scene, for example, but didn't have the currency to change the stakes -- that was up to me. It's similar to AD&D players deciding to smoke out a group of raiders hiding in a cave, instead of attacking them head-on. Is that letting the players be the arbitrator of the encounter?
That is exactly how I've been doing it since 1981. We discuss and come to an interpretation that satisfies the table.Well, on the allegedly other side of things, there are also D&D groups where the "ruling" is often a table consensus, not DM fiat.
I don't think we are defining things quite the same way. The rules of fate provide clear guidance how players can use and create Aspects. That they do so within the framework of those rules does not mean they have adjudication power. In FATE adjudication is still solely within the auspices of the GM.Not sure you entirely embraced the ruleset, then. Players should absolutely be changing the fiction in FATE -- create an advantage, for instance, is a clear invitation for the player to introduce new fiction that changes the situation. If this isn't happening, you're not engaged with the full ruleset. Which is entirely possible -- I've heard of people playing FATE that refused to ever compel an aspect and who fully prepped a FATE game like a D&D AP adventure. I mean, I guess you can do that if you're ignoring the ruleset and it's assumptions, but that doesn't actually mean FATE is like D&D because that's what you did.
In FATE adjudication is still solely within the auspices of the GM.
And there's a philosophical question as to whether this amounts to "changing the stakes."the players just have a lot more control over the description of the outcomes of the actions and the list of possible outcomes.