The Paladin killed someone...what to do?

[Chainsaw Mage]

I'd ask the player what he thinks should happen to his character.

If he doesn't think anything bad should happen, and you do, and you enforce some kind of nerfing of his abilities, get ready for a pissed-off player.

If he does think something bad should happen, let him decide what it is.

Huh???

What's next, "Tell your player to roll to attack, and then ask him to decide if he hits or not"?

Paladins who murder get stripped of their abilities. If the player gets his nose out of joint, tough. He can play Monopoly or something.

 

[Patlin]

A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and abilities

I don't think the one act is enough to change the character's alignment. However, killing a helpless prisoner is an evil act. This Paladin willfully committed an evil act, and loses his Paladin status.

Under these circumstances, a Paladin has a variety of options:

1) Turn the prisoner over to the authorities. In most settings, this is the best option.
2) Return to the prisoner his weapon and challenge him to a duel so that you might prove his villany upon his body. (It becomes interesting if the challenge is refused and the prisoner will not take up his weapon, see option 1.)
3) Release the prisoner with suitably dire threats. "Return to your master dog! When next I see him or you, your villany will end upon my blade!"

You can't just take prisoners and kill them when it becomes convenient to do so if you want to remain a paladin.

 

[Aaron L]

Huh???

What's next, "Tell your player to roll to attack, and then ask him to decide if he hits or not"?

Paladins who murder get stripped of their abilities. If the player gets his nose out of joint, tough. He can play Monopoly or something.

Next time a paladin storms an orc den and kills them all and takes thier treasure with the rest of the party, I'll be sure to keep that in mind.

 

[Chainsaw Mage]

Um, no. You are either omitting at least one other "circle of thought" or misstating the position of those you think fall into circle #2.

Perhaps this would be a good time to refer everyone to this:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20050325a

The part that is most relevant to your #2 is probably: "As a lawful person, you recognize that most laws have valid purposes that promote social order, but you are not necessarily bound to obey them to the letter. In particular, if you are both good and lawful, you have no respect for a law [that] is unfair or capricious."

I found it interesting until I read that the author is a "committed born-again Christian." That rankles.

 

[HalWhitewyrm]

I'm looking for advice / opinions on a paladin-related issue.
<SNIP situation>
Obviously this is not on the list of Approved Paladin Activities.

I disagree. While not necessarily something that would be applauded by a judge in a public session, it would certainly be well within the realm of the law and of the paladin's code. While most D&D worlds are not necessarily fully medieval in their legal makeups, unless you are playing in a fantasy version of modern-day democracy, I would be hard-pressed to find a legal system that would condemn the paladin for his actions. A public slap on the wrist, maybe, but nothing beyond that, not for killing such a scumbag.

As far as the whole alignment issue, I will only say what I tell any of my players that decides to play a paladin: Paladins are Lawful Good, not Lawful Idiot.

What would you do to the paladin in question?

Give him a medal?

Seriously, I would, first of all, have the halfling die when returning from the cliffhanger. Scumbag.

Second, I would take the paladin's powers away for a short while. Even if the act was within the paladin's code, it was a borderline act in which he came very close to going against everything a paladin represents. Between the emotional strain of knowing what happened to his wife, the spiritual strain of knowing he hovered on the edge of the abyss, and the social strain of the ensuing investigation into the death of the halfling, the attack on the pregnant wife and whoever might be behind it all, this paladin just won't be himself fully. You can say the situation creates a sort of spiritual barrier that impedes the divine powers from manifesting.

Let the paladin sweat it out a little. Paladin or not, you can't go around doing similar acts all the time, and he should become very much aware of it. Then after a while (decide on the time secretly, I would make it about a month, or a week after there has been some resolution to part of the case, either legal absolution for the death of the halfling, or actual information leading to the discovery of the mastermind behind it all, whichever is more dramatic) he can go and get an attonement spell cast, with the action needed to complete the attonement being one that ties directly into the next part of the investigation/adventure.

Hope this helps.

 

[Peter Gibbons]

I found it interesting until I read that the author is a "committed born-again Christian." That rankles.

Um...why?

 

[Aaron L]

Um...why?

Glad someone said it.

 

[Chainsaw Mage]

Um...why?

A few reasons:

1. All Christians, by definition, are "born again." The idea of being "born again" is central to Christian belief. When a person says they are a "born again" Christian, they're essentially saying, "I'm not only a Christian, but unlike many *other* Christians, I'm *also* born again! I'm the real deal!" In my experience, the only people who describe themselves as "born again Christians" are evangelical, fundamentalist, Jerry Falwell-Protestant types.

2. He not only describes himself as a "born again" Christian, but also as a "committed" Christian. So he's saying, "Look how *committed* I am!" It comes across as self-righteous.

3. How is his religious faith relevant to the article? Stating, "I am a committed, born-again Christian" in his bio seems like unnecessary posturing.

Just for the record, and I'm saying this because it might seem relevant to some folks, I am *not* an atheist or an anti-religious secular type. I am a Catholic. I would consider myself to be "born again" and "committed" and certainly a "Christian", but I wouldn't feel the need to proclaim *any* of those things in an article about D&D.

 

[Arravis]

It rankles because it’s in no way relevant and shouldn’t have been mentioned. Is it an attempt to establish his credibility as a “moral” person? If so, there’s some serious issues with that… are the rest of us not moral? Is the Christian ethos the standard by which D&D good and evil should be measured? Etc… I could go on for a while.

And what Chainsaw Mage said, though I think it is funny that a guy with Leatherface as his icon is discussing christianity...

 

[Eridanis]

I could go on for a while.

Which is why, as interesting as the topic is, we don't allow discussion of real-world religions on ENworld.

Back to fantasy religions, please!