The Paladin killed someone...what to do?

[Old Fezziwig]

Hey, I think it's absolutely appropriate, but the player might take it as being too adversarial. That's all.

 

[tonym]

Holy moley! Jim Hague, you've gone from trying to paint the paladin as a murderer to screaming for him to be dragged into hell, along with his tainted seed and despoiled wife.

"Switch his kid out withsome sort of hellspawn"? Cripes!

Haha. Good thread.


Tony M

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Holy moley! Jim Hague, you've gone from trying to paint the paladin as a murderer to screaming for him to be dragged into hell, along with his tainted seed and despoiled wife.

"Switch his kid out withsome sort of hellspawn"? Cripes!

Which is why all characters should aspire to the state of nameless, friendless orphans from an undetermined town.

Any other sort of attachment seems to be just too much temptation for DMs to lay off.

 

[Jim Hague]

Hey, I think it's absolutely appropriate, but the player might take it as being too adversarial. That's all.

Please note that I haven't abandoned the gloves on approach here - I had a very, very similar situation in my campaign and the player didn't take well to the hooks I threw him. Thus I hope others can learn from my misadventures. I'm saying that at this point the RP-erific approach should be something that makes the paladin's life interesting, in the Chinese sense.

 

[Jim Hague]

Which is why all characters should aspire to the state of nameless, friendless orphans from an undetermined town.

Any other sort of attachment seems to be just too much temptation for DMs to lay off.

Eh? So having consequences for breaking the paladinic code, the dogma of the chruch and possibly metagaming should be...what? I'm not advocating punitive measures, I'm saying that the paladin needs to learn - and there's plenty of grounding in myth and literature that allegory - his evil, however small, spreading from him to those he was allegedly protecting - is an excellent teacher. And it could be some damned fine roleplaying, too.

Hardly a screwing by the DM.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Eh? So having consequences for breaking the paladinic code, the dogma of the chruch and possibly metagaming should be...what?

I'm not sure, but having your wife replaced with a succubus and your unborn child turned into some demonic half-fiend ain't it.

 

[Jim Hague]

I'm not sure, but having your wife replaced with a succubus and your unborn child turned into some demonic half-fiend ain't it.

I proposed swapping them out in order to give the opportunity for the paladin to execute a rescue later. You're familiar with the parable of Job, yes? It's a test of faith, since the paladin seems to be wavering. I never said kill them off, or turn them into demons - that wouldn't make sense in any case.

Sorry that the proposal's not to your taste. Why don't you offer something else instead?

 

[Demmero]

Upon further conversation, the player felt that the PC's actions were in character, though not necessarily appropriate for a paladin. He felt the act was moderately evil and chaotic, and said that his motive was anger and not so much vengeance. He did not think he should lose his powers over it.

Wow. Saying that his motivation was anger and not just vengeance is bad. Scary bad.

Think of all the things we get angry about: having the phone ring during dinner, missing remote controls, stubbing your toe on something, etc. There's a whole lot of things that we get mad about on a regular basis.

On the other hand, the closest I've personally gotten to vengeful in recent days would've been to drag myself to the voting poll and vote against all the jerks who called with recorded campaign messages on Monday and Tuesday...but even there I decided that wasn't worth the effort.

Sounds like this paladin is a loose cannon...and not a paladin at all.

 

[Jim Hague]

Damn, I missed that. That's worse, then, IMO - it's not even really spiritual evil, it's petty and entirely mundane evil, willingly committed. It's not EVIL or Evil, but 'evil', or maybe (evil). Bad, very bad. I'm sticking by my guns on what to do, then. Someone's soul needs a good cleansing. And how.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I proposed swapping them out ... I never said kill them off, or turn them into demons - that wouldn't make sense in any case.

I'm sorry; the temporary nature of your proposed punishment was not clear from your initial post:

Replace his wife with a succubus or eryine for awhile, or get her involved with a local activity that turns out to be an evil cult. Switch his kid out with some sort of hellspawn.

You're familiar with the parable of Job, yes?

Yes. I'm also pretty sure that it would be a particularly crappy thing to have to roleplay through. It'd probably be better to just skip to the pillar of salt stage and roll up a new character.

Also, is what you are proposing really a test of faith? Is the PC (and, more importantly, the player) likely to see it that way? I wouldn't.

Furthermore, we're talking about a wife and unborn child who have already been "assaulted." How much are you willing to bet that whatever shadowy presence invaded her room in the middle of the night dropped by just to say "Hi"? I'd give even odds, at best, that the unborn child is already in a heap of trouble, regardless of what the Paladin does from here on out. How does this tie in with your ideas on testing the Paladin's faith?

Again, this just seems to be further proof that backstories and in-character relationships are there so that the DM can hose you with them. Can it be a great hook to have what you love directly threatened? Absolutely. Can it motivate you to go out and save the world? Certainly. Am I tired of it being overused? You betcha.

If you want to give the Paladin a mandate from on high, give him a prophetic dream of what will happen to his grown son should the Paladin fall: enemies the Paladin would have dispatched or routed gain enough power to take over this section of the world, the child grows up under the influence of some resulting dark cult, and becomes a powerful blackguard in his own right, using the anger he inherited from his father.