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PF2 The PF2 Alchemist - how did it turn out?

gargoyleking

Explorer
Exactly. Besides, you can describe them any way you like. Naruto style energy pills for instance. Or a more natural style of herbal poultices wrapped up in leaves and bound with twine.
 

zztong

Explorer
Exactly. Besides, you can describe them any way you like. Naruto style energy pills for instance. Or a more natural style of herbal poultices wrapped up in leaves and bound with twine.
So goblin alchemists just spit onto a leaf and they're good to go.
 

Saelorn

Adventurer
Exactly. Besides, you can describe them any way you like. Naruto style energy pills for instance. Or a more natural style of herbal poultices wrapped up in leaves and bound with twine.
If PF2 has gone the 4E route, where nothing means anything and you can describe things however you like as long as you don't change the numbers, then this is the first I've heard of it.
 

gargoyleking

Explorer
4E wasn't even like that. We're talking about the difference between a class ability which costs you nothing from day to day, except for class resources, and the actual crafting skill in which you need the proper supplies and downtime to work.

Carrying around a crate of vials everywhere you go would be extremely prohibitive. The alchemist I built can barely carry what he owns without being encumbered by it as it is.


That said, there is something to say for a system that allows you to design a bit of your own fluff for your own characters.
 

Fanaelialae

Adventurer
It looks like Paizo is already adding additional alchemical recipes. The PF2 adventure, The Fall of Plaguestone, introduces the Alchemical Crossbow, Energy Mutagen, and Stone Body Mutagen. Admittedly though, they're all combat oriented, rather than producing interesting effects.
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
4E wasn't even like that. We're talking about the difference between a class ability which costs you nothing from day to day, except for class resources, and the actual crafting skill in which you need the proper supplies and downtime to work.

Carrying around a crate of vials everywhere you go would be extremely prohibitive. The alchemist I built can barely carry what he owns without being encumbered by it as it is.
I've done some extensive analysis on how to balance an alchemist. Encumbrance is not it Alchemists and resources - a hard nut to crack - a sturdy pack mule or a bag of holding and the constraint is mostly gone.

That said, there is something to say for a system that allows you to design a bit of your own fluff for your own characters.
Absolutely!
 

pcrotteau

Explorer
My impression: Good addition to the core classes. It is a good fit for a utility/support character. The changes from 1e are welcome, moving from a limited transmuter type (could use spells that only targeted himself), to a true crafting/brewer alchemist.

There IS plenty of room for new items that aren't bombs. The weapon blanches come to mind.

You no longer have to pay attention to mutagens if you don't want to. Or you can concentrate on them for a combat monster.

The party can even fund his downtime to make discounted potions or gizmos,

Going to be lots of fun.
 

mellored

Explorer
The core concept works well.
The action economy works.

But the whole item list seems like it's a tier behind. By the time you get at-will 1d6 bombs, the wizard has at-will 2d6 acid splash, plus a bunch of spells. It just seems like there was miscommunication between the person who made the alchemist and the one who made the items.

At least with the errata, Mutagen get a little scaling on their unarmed attack. So hopefully they will fix the other numbers as well. Like by adding a die to all the items.

They also just need more utility consumables, like glue, grease, solvent, and other such stuff.
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
Huh. I just assumed that the damage numbers would be balanced...

I'm just disappointed by the low level of creativity displayed in the alchemicals in general. Not only does the alchemist lose a lot of utility since there is no longer access to pseudo spells (the infusion), it would have been a great spot to demonstrate creativity and innovate.
 

mellored

Explorer
Huh. I just assumed that the damage numbers would be balanced...
All the other classes seem very well balanced. Just the alchemist / item levels seem off. (like the 5e beastmaster).

I think they just need to move Perpetual Infusions/Potency/Perfection (at-will potions that only you can use) down 5 levels. Then you would have slightly-better-than-cantrip attacks.
Which frees up your several slightly-worse-than-spells buffs every day to hand out to other people. Like giving the rogue poison, or the fighter a Juggernaut Mutagen.
 
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mellored

Explorer
Here's my current houserules for the alchemist.

Perpetual Infusion (lesser) at level 3 instead of 7
Perpetual Potency (minor) at level 7 instead of 11
Perpetual Efficacy (greater) at level 11 instead of 17
Perpetual Perfection (major) at level 17

Mutigenist gets Training in medium armor. (Expert at 13, Master at 19).

New Item: Added to the Chirugeon list.
Liquid Bandage: [Alchemy][Bomb][Consumable] A quick drying semi-clear fluid that can be splashed over a creature to put out fire, sooth acids, and staunch bleeding. It also harden into thin barrier, providing a little protective before flaking off. A creature can be willingly be hit by this.
Lesser: 1d4 temporary hit points for 1 minute, and they can immediately make an additional save against persistent fire, acid, or bleeding damage.
Minor: 2d4, and the flat DC is 10.
Greater: 3d4, t, and the flat DC is 5.
Major: 4d4, and they automatically succeed.


*Persistent damage is like 4e's ongoing damage. Roll a d20 (no modifiers) at the end of your turn. 15 or higher ends it.
 

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