D&D General The Player's Quantum Ogre: Warlock Pacts

[EzekielRaiden]

I realize that religion, relationships, Gods, and the totality of human history is messy and a lot more nuanced then one singular view.

Then why in God's name are YOU pushing the one narrative of the divine sugar daddy who cuts off their clerics the INSTANT they do something undesired?

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Exactly. Imagine if the only stories told or pushed where ones of loving relationships, heroic hero's doing heroic deeds with good in their hearts, and the cheering of the morally correct.

...

It makes me profoundly sad that you see this as something horrible.

God forbid we try to tell stories of hope. That would be the worst thing.

 

[Scribe]

I'm saying that the idea that ABSOLUTELY EVERY deity is just gleefully waiting to pull the plug the moment a cleric acts in even the slightest out of line way is goddamn ridiculous.

Please point to the post that said this at all.

Then why in God's name are YOU pushing the one narrative of the divine sugar daddy who cuts off their clerics the INSTANT they do something undesired?

I did not, in any way do so.

 

[Scribe]

It makes me profoundly sad that you see this as something horrible.

God forbid we try to tell stories of hope. That would be the worst thing.

My man, I think you are smarter than this. I'm not the one cheering for absolutes and a singular way.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No. I have a simple credo about my PCs: I control what they say and do. Not the DM. I dislike abilities that force my PC to act in ways contrary to how they would otherwise (barring literal mind control) and I don't like DMs who threaten to remove my class if I don't behave the way they think I should behave. You want to punish my disobedient warlock? Send minions to harass him, use omens to spoil his tea and have horses whinny when he's near. But don't you DARE take away his class abilities when the sorcerer can wave his willy in Asmodeus's face and keeps his spellcasting features just fine.

What about if we threaten to have the patron you chose when you chose to play a warlock actually matter in the campaign?

 

[Micah Sweet]

The point is that the deity can see what most can't, and they have every reason to want engaged, enthusiastic, proselytizing shepherds.

I'm not saying relationships can never be dysfunctional. I'm saying that the idea that ABSOLUTELY EVERY deity is just gleefully waiting to pull the plug the moment a cleric acts in even the slightest out of line way is goddamn ridiculous. It is stupid. It is self-defeating.

Gods who do this would not have worshipers.

Still seeing a lot of absolute statements from your corner.

 

[Scribe]

Anyway, I think Daggerheart, or any game that leans more into the narrative is going to handle this obviously better than 5e/5.5, because its systems have a built in mechanism which is just woefully underdeveloped in D&D if it exists at all.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Then why in God's name are YOU pushing the one narrative of the divine sugar daddy who cuts off their clerics the INSTANT they do something undesired?

I don't recall anyone pushing that. I do recall you immediately drawing that conclusion from "I want a warlock's patron and their pact to matter in the campaign".

 

[EzekielRaiden]

My man, I think you are smarter than this. I'm not the one cheering for absolutes and a singular way.

Ah yes. I'm "cheering for absolutes and a singular way" by analyzing the reverence relationship between a powerful living concept the mortal representatives thereof and saying how the former in the vast majority of cases should consider such people assets to be cultivated and preserved, rather than thrown away like disposable tissues. How dare I think about the consequences of the deity's choices, rather than only considering the consequences of the Cleric's choices. I'm clearly one true waying this.

Your condescending remarks might hold a bit of a mirror in them.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I don't recall anyone pushing that. I do recall you immediately drawing that conclusion from "I want a warlock's patron and their pact to matter in the campaign".

Okay.

What on Earth does that bloody MEAN?