The "Price That Magic Item" Game!

[hong]

Who needs 60' movement when you can have those ridiculous Quicksilver Boots for 3500? That item is so terribly priced that I must be reading it wrong somehow...Are they really trying to make it that easy to get extra actions and full attacks? Have they not learned from 3.0 Haste For that price, I'd buy 5, one for each battle with a spare pair left over. You'll hardly need to use its abilities more than that, though it is nice for more than just dashing through everything to get to your target and then killing them with an opening full attack.

I agree with Mistwell on the Steadfast Boots--with the given prereqs and pricing, it would make no sense to grant infinite readied actions as well.

I think the idea is that people aren't going to go the route of circumventing use limits by getting lots of copies of the same item. If you're going to do that, you might as well make everything at-will, and bump up the price 100x. Would be slightly boring, though.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I think the idea is that people aren't going to go the route of circumventing use limits by getting lots of copies of the same item. If you're going to do that, you might as well make everything at-will, and bump up the price 100x. Would be slightly boring, though.

If 20x a day is not acceptable for 35000, I don't think 2x a day is at all acceptable for 3500 though. It just makes the character more of a loaded gun, a nova waiting to go off when it counts and skew the party's capabilities. If there's one great thing about the Bo9S classes, wrinkles and all, it's that they are much flatter in that regard, and I personally thought that was a wiser design direction.

 

[Mistwell]

Boots of striding and springing give +10' and +5 to jump, plus they are overpriced. +5 to jump is 2500gp base, +10' is based off of longstrider and so it 2000gp, multiplying the smaller cost by 1.5 gives a total cost of 5500gp so the formula works out but they are certainly not worth that price tag.

You really have not groked the fact that the guidelines are just guidelines, and the pricing of magic items is more often than not in no way based on those guidelines.

Speed bonuses do not follow the guidelines. We do not have to guess at this, because we know if for sure. WOTC has made it clear.

That you think those striding and springing boots, which the MIC admits are ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR ITEMS IN THE ENTIRE GAME, are overpriced, shows that your game isn't typical.

4kgp is kind of reasonable. A bit on the high side though.

The movement bonus is nice but not that great. It just does not do that much. It is also of the most common type for speed boosting.

Occasionally useful while normally not doing much of anything. Fits right in with the situational items that were getting reduced for this book.

2300 for +30 for up to 3 rounds in a single day and each use costing an action? Overpriced by an order of magnitude.

Each use is a swift action, and I think those boots are cheap, and I think you are in the overwhelming minority in your opinion about speed bonuses in this game.

 

[Mistwell]

Who needs 60' movement when you can have those ridiculous Quicksilver Boots for 3500? That item is so terribly priced that I must be reading it wrong somehow...Are they really trying to make it that easy to get extra actions and full attacks? Have they not learned from 3.0 Haste For that price, I'd buy 5, one for each battle with a spare pair left over. You'll hardly need to use its abilities more than that, though it is nice for more than just dashing through everything to get to your target and then killing them with an opening full attack.

It's just replicating the Monte Cook Arcana Evolved feat I believe. Having played with that feat, I do not find it overpowered, particularly if reduced to 2 x day. An extra move action (used just to actually move) here and there is useful, but not game breaking.

 

[hong]

It's just replicating the Monte Cook Arcana Evolved feat I believe. Having played with that feat, I do not find it overpowered, particularly if reduced to 2 x day. An extra move action (used just to actually move) here and there is useful, but not game breaking.

What Rystil Arden is complaining about is that an extra move action is equivalent to pounce, ie full attack after moving. For some classes (eg barbarians), it often comes down to who gets the first full attack off. There was a 1st level spell in Savage Species, pouncing charge, that gave the target the pounce ability for 10 mins/level and it became routine practice to put it on the tanks. It really is that good.

By comparison, quicksilver motion (move action as a swift action) is a 6th level diamond mind maneuver in ToB, and shadow blink (teleport 50' as a swift action, must have LOS and LOE to destination) is 7th level. OTOH sudden leap (make Jump check as a swift action) is 1st level.

 

[Mistwell]

What Rystil Arden is complaining about is that an extra move action is equivalent to pounce, ie full attack after moving. For some classes (eg barbarians), it often comes down to who gets the first full attack off. There was a 1st level spell in Savage Species, pouncing charge, that gave the target the pounce ability for 10 mins/level and it became routine practice to put it on the tanks. It really is that good.

By comparison, quicksilver motion (move action as a swift action) is a 6th level diamond mind maneuver in ToB, and shadow blink (teleport 50' as a swift action, must have LOS and LOE to destination) is 7th level. OTOH sudden leap (make Jump check as a swift action) is 1st level.

Ah, I gotcha.

I do think the flaw with many of these items is the lack of the 24 hour attuning clause. If they had just included that clause by default, and then removed it when they thought it was not appropriate, most items would have worked out well.

 

[hong]

If 20x a day is not acceptable for 35000, I don't think 2x a day is at all acceptable for 3500 though. It just makes the character more of a loaded gun, a nova waiting to go off when it counts and skew the party's capabilities. If there's one great thing about the Bo9S classes, wrinkles and all, it's that they are much flatter in that regard, and I personally thought that was a wiser design direction.

Would it be better then if instead of 2/day it was something like 1/encounter? That way you know the gun has to be used within a limited time. The price would go up, but predictability would be improved.

 

[hong]

Ah, I gotcha.

I do think the flaw with many of these items is the lack of the 24 hour attuning clause. If they had just included that clause by default, and then removed it when they thought it was not appropriate, most items would have worked out well.

The attuning idea is a good one. Funny that they mention it for a few items, but neglect to make it a default rule.

 

[Slaved]

You really have not groked the fact that the guidelines are just guidelines, and the pricing of magic items is more often than not in no way based on those guidelines.

So my pricing for this whole thread, which only pays a passing glance to the pricing guidelines, has not shown that I am more than comfortable with dropping the guidelines when they seem out of line?

Odd. I would have thought my posts in this thread would point more towards ignoring them than stictly adhearing to them.

Generally I use them as a starting point though. See what the guidelines say, see if there are any comparable items, look at the prices and ask myself if I saw them on the shelf to buy as a character how much would I be willing to pay.

But the guidelines are still one of a couple good places to start. Looking at this spell and speed bonus in particular it is not incredibly out of line price wise and the closest item to compare it with shows 2kgp for +10' enhancement is acceptable so 4kgp for +30' enhancement is not out of line that way either.

Speed bonuses do not follow the guidelines. We do not have to guess at this, because we know if for sure. WOTC has made it clear.

Where did they make this clear? Plus, if speed bonuses do not follow the guidelines then why do the boots of striding and springing follow the guidelines exactly??

That you think those striding and springing boots, which the MIC admits are ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR ITEMS IN THE ENTIRE GAME, are overpriced, shows that your game isn't typical.

I have never seen anyone buy them in 3.5. +10' enhancement to movement is nice but almost everything that boosts speed is an enhancement bonus. Plus that price tag is really high for it since the bonus to jump is a nice bit of flavor but typically not so hot.

Where did they determine this to be the most popular item? I would like to see their polling results.

For footwear I would say that boots of speed are much more popular. If the speed is the important part then the fact that boots of speed grant a larger bonus, which is again an enhancement bonus, should make them more popular by default especially once you toss on all of the other incredible boosts that they give.

Each use is a swift action, and I think those boots are cheap, and I think you are in the overwhelming minority in your opinion about speed bonuses in this game.

Yep, a swift action to activate. So, as I said before, they take an action to activate.

Some builds really like those swift actions. Such as the tome of battle characters for instance or many caster builds.

Then the bonus only lasts for a round of movement.

Way too expensive. They effectively give you a first level spell useable 3 times a day, although if I remember correctly the spell did not have the speed limitation.

 

[Slaved]

While the discussion of the price of the boots is certainly on topic when will the next round be up?