The "Price That Magic Item" Game!
- Thread starter Mistwell
- Start date
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
Slaved said:
It's called out by name in the MIC as one of the most common items selected by PCs.
You can view part of that here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20070302a
I think, if we took a poll, most people would say that item is too cheap, not too expensive.
Mistwell said:
I do not have the book yet.
Mistwell said:
Kindof an offhand comment though. Who knows if it is true or not. Although it even mentions the jumping as being fairly useless just like I did, go me!
If someone wants speed that much there are other options which grant more speed. At a high enough level where 5500gp is easily affordable enough that you are into the 5th or 6th tier of item picking I would imagine that there are much better options for a particular build while at the times that it is a huge investment there are options which are cheaper and about as good overall. Such as a mount.
Mistwell said:
Sounds like a good poll. Too bad we cannot ask every d&d player.
evilbob
Adventurer
I didn't make it in time to guess the first time around, but here're my responses:
1. Sandals of Sprinting - 3xday swift action to gain +30 enhancement bonus to land speed (max double your speed) until start of your next turn. 2,300 gp.
Seems slightly low. I'd have guessed closer to 3k.
2. Boots of Sidestepping - 3xday swift action extra 5-foot step. Can use even if already moved, and doesn't prevent movement after use (even a regular 5' step). 6,000 gp.
Seems about right. Extremely good for cleavers and great-cleavers, even better for bowmen: 5' step from behind full cover, full attack, 5' step back behind full cover.
3. Boots of Agile Leaping - Constant +Dex to Jump checks instead of Strength. If you have at least 5 ranks in Balance, constant stand up from prone as swift action, and standing from prone doesn't provoke attack of opportunity. 600 gp.
Seems outrageously low. Seriously: every character I've ever played would gladly have paid more than 10x this amount for these boots. I've seen multiple feats do less than these boots. No monk or fighter should exist without these boots. Not just good for trip-monkeys: anyone who's ever been dropped in a combat - especially against reaching opponents - needs these boots! PLEASE SELL ME THESE BOOTS!
4. Cloudwalker Anklets - Constant Air Walk (as spell), can benefit from effect even if wildshaped. 50,000 gp
Seems a bit high. But then again, a constant fly-like ability is going to be expensive. It'd be much better as a charged item for 1/2 the cost.
5. Acrobat Boots - Constant +2 tumble checks. 3 charges/day enhancement bonus to land speed for 1 rd. Bonus depends on charges you expend: 1 charge = +10, 2 = +15, 3= +20. 900 gp.
Seems a bit low. I'd have said about double that cost, or between 1.5k and 2k.
6. Skirmisher Boots - 2xday make single extra melee or ranged attack using full BAB, after having moved at least 10 feet from space you started turn (mount movement doesn't count). Also, if you have the skirmash special ability (scout), constant +2 damage when skirmishing. 3,200 gp.
Seems about right. No obvious exploits come to mind, especially since it's just an attack and not a standard action. 3200g for the Weap. Specialization feat for scouts might be low, though.
7. Quicksilver Boots - 2xday swift action to move up to your land speed (as if using a move action, but not taking your move action), and gain concealment against Attacks of Opportunity caused by that movement, and can move over liquid without falling into it as long as you start and end the movement on solid ground. 3,500 gp.
Seems very low. As others have mentioned: pounce = you win. If these boots specifically couldn't be used with a charge attack, then the price is about right.
8. Boots of the Battle Charger - 2xday make charge attack as a standard action instead of full-round action. Can only move your speed, not double your speed. Must make the attack in the round you activate the boots. Also, if you have a magic item that grants enhancement bonus to Dex, you can move across terrain and through squares occupied by allies when making this standard action charge. 2,000 gp
Seems like a weird item. This might be about right, but the ability granted (and a synergy ability?) are just to strange to quantify. Why is it useful?
9. Boots of Swift Passage - 5 x day move action to teleport without error up to 20 feet in any direction (need line of sight and effect, can't be an object or creature in destination, cannot bring other creatures with you). 5,000 gp
Seems a bit low. Other dimension door items are much more expensive; however, the range is extremely limited.
10. Steadfast Boots - Constant +4 bonus on checks to avoid bull rush, overrun, or trip. Also, if carrying two-handed weapon, constant treatment as if readied weapon against a charge (double damage if you hit), even if weapon cannot normally be set against charges. 1,400 gp.
Seems slightly low. You get to be a dwarf and get some other ability no one understands? A bit much for 1.4k.
1. Sandals of Sprinting - 3xday swift action to gain +30 enhancement bonus to land speed (max double your speed) until start of your next turn. 2,300 gp.
Seems slightly low. I'd have guessed closer to 3k.
2. Boots of Sidestepping - 3xday swift action extra 5-foot step. Can use even if already moved, and doesn't prevent movement after use (even a regular 5' step). 6,000 gp.
Seems about right. Extremely good for cleavers and great-cleavers, even better for bowmen: 5' step from behind full cover, full attack, 5' step back behind full cover.
3. Boots of Agile Leaping - Constant +Dex to Jump checks instead of Strength. If you have at least 5 ranks in Balance, constant stand up from prone as swift action, and standing from prone doesn't provoke attack of opportunity. 600 gp.
Seems outrageously low. Seriously: every character I've ever played would gladly have paid more than 10x this amount for these boots. I've seen multiple feats do less than these boots. No monk or fighter should exist without these boots. Not just good for trip-monkeys: anyone who's ever been dropped in a combat - especially against reaching opponents - needs these boots! PLEASE SELL ME THESE BOOTS!
4. Cloudwalker Anklets - Constant Air Walk (as spell), can benefit from effect even if wildshaped. 50,000 gp
Seems a bit high. But then again, a constant fly-like ability is going to be expensive. It'd be much better as a charged item for 1/2 the cost.
5. Acrobat Boots - Constant +2 tumble checks. 3 charges/day enhancement bonus to land speed for 1 rd. Bonus depends on charges you expend: 1 charge = +10, 2 = +15, 3= +20. 900 gp.
Seems a bit low. I'd have said about double that cost, or between 1.5k and 2k.
6. Skirmisher Boots - 2xday make single extra melee or ranged attack using full BAB, after having moved at least 10 feet from space you started turn (mount movement doesn't count). Also, if you have the skirmash special ability (scout), constant +2 damage when skirmishing. 3,200 gp.
Seems about right. No obvious exploits come to mind, especially since it's just an attack and not a standard action. 3200g for the Weap. Specialization feat for scouts might be low, though.
7. Quicksilver Boots - 2xday swift action to move up to your land speed (as if using a move action, but not taking your move action), and gain concealment against Attacks of Opportunity caused by that movement, and can move over liquid without falling into it as long as you start and end the movement on solid ground. 3,500 gp.
Seems very low. As others have mentioned: pounce = you win. If these boots specifically couldn't be used with a charge attack, then the price is about right.
8. Boots of the Battle Charger - 2xday make charge attack as a standard action instead of full-round action. Can only move your speed, not double your speed. Must make the attack in the round you activate the boots. Also, if you have a magic item that grants enhancement bonus to Dex, you can move across terrain and through squares occupied by allies when making this standard action charge. 2,000 gp
Seems like a weird item. This might be about right, but the ability granted (and a synergy ability?) are just to strange to quantify. Why is it useful?
9. Boots of Swift Passage - 5 x day move action to teleport without error up to 20 feet in any direction (need line of sight and effect, can't be an object or creature in destination, cannot bring other creatures with you). 5,000 gp
Seems a bit low. Other dimension door items are much more expensive; however, the range is extremely limited.
10. Steadfast Boots - Constant +4 bonus on checks to avoid bull rush, overrun, or trip. Also, if carrying two-handed weapon, constant treatment as if readied weapon against a charge (double damage if you hit), even if weapon cannot normally be set against charges. 1,400 gp.
Seems slightly low. You get to be a dwarf and get some other ability no one understands? A bit much for 1.4k.
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
starwed said:
My recollection is that it says whichever is higher (str or dex bonus).
I know my Rogue is probably interested in this item. His Dex is much higher than Str, 5 ranks in balance isn't hard to get for a rogue, and we are fighting in the city often with people hitting us with ranged attacks. Dropping to prone intentionally (free action that does not provoke an AOO) for the better AC (+$ AC), and then standing back up as a swift action on my turn instead of a move action, attacking back, and dropping again, is a legit and useful tactic for such situations.
Of course, if someone closes to melee range with me, I will be harmed by that tactic (-4 AC). Which is when I abandon it
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evilbob
Adventurer
Mostly, I'm still thinking of anyone who has, at any time, been dropped next to a monster, and then healed back above zero before the creature was dead (or far enough away not to reach you anymore). Getting back up is a hard thing to do, because no matter what you do - unless you stick to fighting from the floor - you're gonna get whacked. And odds are, if you just woke up from being put under 0 HP, you cannot afford to get whacked. It's an extremely dangerous situation (low HP + prone) that happens often enough to warrant purchasing measures to protect against it. Getting up as a swift action is nice, but getting up without an AoO is unbelievably good. It's TOTALLY worth 10 skill points + 600g for any class.
This kind of usefulness goes up exponentially for classes who already can afford to (and might anyway) put ranks in balance - like monks and rogues. Monks in particular have great access to good tripping abilities, and if they are tripped in return, they get a free "nevermind - I get to continue my full attack action while standing!" once per round. Same with spiked-chain fighters: once per round, don't drop your weapon; just fall and stand up as a swift action! No harm, no foul.
Who cares about the Dex->Jump thing - you could easily leave that out and the item is still worth over 6000g to me. I'll take five and give four to my friends!
That said, it seems from the Design and Development article linked to earlier in this thread that the entire point of the new MIC is basically: to make items cheaper so that everyone will actually buy them. This makes a lot of sense, actually, and its a concept that I can agree with, especially having read the arguments put forth in the article. I still think this particular item is far too cheap for how amazing it is, but overall I'd say the direction they are going with magic items - i.e. what if we make it so that someone will actually consider purchasing them - is a good one.
This kind of usefulness goes up exponentially for classes who already can afford to (and might anyway) put ranks in balance - like monks and rogues. Monks in particular have great access to good tripping abilities, and if they are tripped in return, they get a free "nevermind - I get to continue my full attack action while standing!" once per round. Same with spiked-chain fighters: once per round, don't drop your weapon; just fall and stand up as a swift action! No harm, no foul.
Who cares about the Dex->Jump thing - you could easily leave that out and the item is still worth over 6000g to me. I'll take five and give four to my friends!
That said, it seems from the Design and Development article linked to earlier in this thread that the entire point of the new MIC is basically: to make items cheaper so that everyone will actually buy them. This makes a lot of sense, actually, and its a concept that I can agree with, especially having read the arguments put forth in the article. I still think this particular item is far too cheap for how amazing it is, but overall I'd say the direction they are going with magic items - i.e. what if we make it so that someone will actually consider purchasing them - is a good one.
Destil
Explorer
Hey, mist, how's this reading sound: You can use any two-handed weapon to ready an action against a charge as if it were a spear, including dealing double damage if you hit?Mistwell said:
That's about right as far as power level, and makes a good deal of sense, though the wording is a little twisted to read it that way.
At any rate that's how I'd allow it in my game.
Mistwell
Crusty Old Meatwad
Destil said:
Sure. Seems reasonable. "As long as you carry a two-handed weapon, you can treat it as a weapon that can be readied...against any creature that charges you (and thus it deals double damage if your attack is successful), even if the weapon can't normally be set against a charge."
