The problem of saves.

takyris

First Post
Sean McMullen has a book set in a world that I find very intriguing. I even considered it as a campaign world -- until I ran into some problems in current D&D thinking.

His world is dominated by a few interesting ideas. The one that I find most peculiar is the Call. The Call is a mental domination field that sweeps across the land at irregular intervals. Any mammal larger than a small dog is caught in the field, and will begin walking in a West, heedless of anything that gets in their way. Villagers put high walls on the west sides of their villages, called Mercy Walls, which stop people who have been Called -- the Call only lasts for a few hours, although anyone who can walk at a normal speed will stay in its area of effect -- it's like a net that grabs mammals, basically.

In his world, only a select few can resist the Call. A few monks have undergone years of meditation to steel their minds, and one type of genetically modified human is uniquely immune.

The problem with this idea in D&D terms is the darn save. I can just see it...

Me: A Call sweeps across the party in mid-fight!

Them: D'oh. Well, let's roll saves.

Me: Um. No. Nobody resists the Call unless they have years of training.

Them: Well, my cleric has years of training. That's why he has a +6 Will save.

Me: Er.

Them: Look, I just rolled a natural 20! A natural 20 ALWAYS saves!

And so forth. Sean's book is very specific -- it says nothing about five percent of the target population just going, "Huh, I resisted it this time."

So how would you handle this as a DM?

(Note: Getting Called if you don't have a Wall nearby is NOT a death sentence -- anyone out in the open for long periods of time wears a belt on a simple gear-driven countdown timer. Each hour, the belt chimes or something, and the person rewinds the timer. If they DON'T rewind it after a certain amount of time -- because they're under the effects of a Call, for example -- a grappler fires out and hopefully snags on something, hooking the person on a nearby wall or tree or bush and keeping them from continuing forward.)

Options I've considered:

1) Make the save very very high and say that in this case, a Natural 20 doesn't mean auto-success.

2) Make it a no-save effect that someone can take a feat to gain a save against. Spending a feat on "Resist Calling" or something would let you make a Will Save against Calls.

3) Make it not a save-based effect but a skill-based effect -- since Skill checks don't succeed on a 20. "Resist Calling (Wis) " is a class skill for all classes, but you can only start gaining ranks once you've undergone some training.

In any of those cases, I still see player complaints coming.

Maybe this speaks to my failings as a DM. As a writer and a TV fan, I'm too much into the drama of some save-effects. I don't think that there SHOULD be saves against them. Looking at a Medusa's eyes should STONE you, barring magical protection. When a wizard tries to turn you into a newt, your options might include dodging the little beam of light that shoots out of their hand, but simply gritting your teeth and trying to resist the spell with your natural fortitude just grates on my sense of drama.

Please note: I'm not a killer DM. I don't want to kill my players' PCs. If I ran a game in which a Medusa's gaze was an instapetrification attack, the players would a) know that beforehand, b) have a chance to learn about an artifact that could protect them, c) have clear rules on what they could and couldn't do in combat in terms of running the risks of meeting the gaze, and d) find the scroll of Depetryphicus, a handy means of de-stoning their friends.

I'm just trying to inject some drama into what often turns into "Well, I'm just gonna go for it. I only need a 4 or higher to save."

-Tacky
 

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takyris said:

2) Make it a no-save effect that someone can take a feat to gain a save against. Spending a feat on "Resist Calling" or something would let you make a Will Save against Calls.

I would go with this option.

Your players should not complain since it affects the npc's as well.

How do you plan on implementing the Call? A random check? When you want it to happen?

If the former, then make that clear as well- so they know it is not dm fiat out to hurt/help them.

SD
 

From what you've posted, here's what I'd do. Firtst make the call a no save. That seems to be the best option. And I'd make the monks who are able to resist it a prestige class, but I'm not famlar with this so a feat might be better.

So, what's the call all about? You said mammel catcher, is there something to the west trying to capture all the mammels or something?
 

Make it so there is no save. Those who are trained have learned to resist it. They don't resist it one time and then go with it another. They ALWAYS resist it. It either takes years, read levels, or you are genetically enhanced. I would set a level for the monks to be able to get the resist feat. From the way you are talking I would put it at level 10 or higher and only straight monks can take it.

If players can accept there is no save for Harm then they can accept that there is no save for The Calling.
 


Thanks for the feedback, guys!

Datt: I had to give a much-brief summary of the book. Essentially, there's a group of mutated humans who are immune to the Call, but the monks do it by sheer willpower, and sometimes they succumb. I could easily see a save mechanic for the monks.

Crothian: I didn't want to spoil the ending for anyone who was interested in the book ("Souls in the Great Machine"). The short answer is that this world is an SF world, not a fantasy world, and it takes place well after both a future nuclear war and some Strangelovian tactics to stop nuclear weapons from ever being used again. The Call is an effect produced by the coolest villains in the entire world: Evil Whales.

Yep, the Whales got messed with for too many years, and they finally decided it was time to bring the whoopass back. The Whales generate the Call in an intelligent and motivated effort to pull as many humans as possible to the edge of the continent. When the humans reach the cliffs overlooking the ocean, they throw themselves off the edge without a second thought. Then the sharks that the whales have domesticated EAT the humans, the camels, the sheep, the cows, and everything else mammalian that jumps off the cliff. In the long run, the Call messes up a lot of humanity's efforts to rebuild and keeps the average life expectancy pretty low.

Evil Whales, man. How can you not love that?

-Tacky
 


Just make it a No Save spell that's affected by Spell Resistance. That way, experienced monks may have the chance to resist it, as may those with SR magic items.
 

If this is kind of a world-spanning effect I think you're looking at something maybe even bigger than a 9th level spell. You may be looking at some sort of epic spell or something on the order of an artifact. I think all's fair when you get up to something that powerful. :)
 

I would represent the CALL as a skill. Monks have it has a class skill and everyone else is cross class. Set the DC pretty high, so low level/young PCs would be unlikely to resist until higher levels.

The genetically engineered humans could get the Resist CALL feat instead of a bonus feat.

Something like that anyhows,

Taren Nighteyes
 

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