The problem of saves.

[takyris]

Short answer: I fast forward for everyone. Since I don't offer saves to anyone, it would go something like:

Me: Okay, the brigands are using spring-pistols, and you can see that they've got some ratty armor.

PCs: (general "getting ready to attack" stuff)

Me: (rolls) And as you step forward confidently...

PCs: Not now, not now!

Me: A Call rolls through. The last thing you remember is the sweet singing in your mind, and then everything goes dark.

(rolls dice, consults chart)

Me: Okay, Arn, you and Havok awake from the trance to find your Call Anchors tied around the same tree. There's a brigand there with you, and another one attached to another tree not far away. You seem to be in the middle of a forest.

Sveris, you awake with your Anchor tied to another tree. You don't see anyone.

Merle, you awake to see that it's night. Your Call Anchor is broken, the tether trailing behind you. You're at the base of what looks like a cliff.

- - - - -

Actually, now that I can see it like that, the Call would be hell for the PCs -- not because it's unfair to them (the brigands were just as screwed as the PCs were, and the "PC Call Behavior Chart" would limit the dying chances) -- but because it forces PCs to spread out, and the world doesn't have a ton of magic. It would work well as a TV show, but getting the PCs back together from miles apart every time a Call came through would be a pain in the long run.

That said, thanks for the responses regarding "Effects the PCs can't save against". Both the Pros and Cons were well-thought-out.

-Tacky

 

[haiiro]

Crothian: I didn't want to spoil the ending for anyone who was interested in the book ("Souls in the Great Machine"). The short answer is that this world is an SF world, not a fantasy world, and it takes place well after both a future nuclear war and some Strangelovian tactics to stop nuclear weapons from ever being used again. The Call is an effect produced by the coolest villains in the entire world: Evil Whales.

I appreciate your not spoiling the book, because you've just convinced me to go out and buy it. I've been in the market for some new SF lately, and hey presto! along comes your post. Thanks.

Just to keep this on topic, I say go ahead and make it a no-save effect. Clever players will trust their grapple-belts and come up with other nifty ideas to get around it, and game pacing will adjust to accomodate Calling.

 

[Pbartender]

Me: (rolls) And as you step forward confidently...

PCs: Not now, not now!

Me: A Call rolls through. The last thing you remember is the sweet singing in your mind, and then everything goes dark.

(rolls dice, consults chart)

Me: Okay, Arn, you and Havok awake from the trance to find your Call Anchors tied around the same tree. There's a brigand there with you, and another one attached to another tree not far away. You seem to be in the middle of a forest.

Sveris, you awake with your Anchor tied to another tree. You don't see anyone.

Merle, you awake to see that it's night. Your Call Anchor is broken, the tether trailing behind you. You're at the base of what looks like a cliff.

Tacky... I think this is where you are making your mistake. Remember, as the DM you don't necessarily have to make the Call (or how/when the character revive from a Call) a random thing. You can make fake rolls to keep the players on their toes, but don't actually have one roll over until it is Good For The Game.

It'd make for a great plot hook... The characters wake up with their Anchors all hooked in the same area, but not far off they can see a whole caravan of people wandering off to the call.

Also, there is some precedent to non-save effects with skill checks to resist. Reference: Lycantheropes and the Resist Change skill...

"Control Shape (Wis)
Any character who has contracted lycanthropy and is aware of his or her condition can learn Control Shape as a class skill. This determines whether the afflicted lycanthrope can voluntarily control his or her shape. Natural lycanthropes instead have the Improved Control Shape feat, which gives them full control over their shapeshifting abilities."

Consider making "Resist Call" a trained-only cross class skill for everyone. make it a pre-requisite for a Resistant Monk prestige class (for which the skill would be a class skill). The PrC could have a class ability at lower levels similar to the Rogue's Slippery Mind that only pertains to check to resist the Call (and perhaps allows them to continue making another rest check every hour or so), and another ability at higher levels that allows to them to automatically resist the Call (or allows them Take 20 on it).

 

[hong]

So Ace, if a DM told you about that acid rain in advance and said, "This is the world your character grew up in. The rain isn't evil. It's not out to get you. It's an environmental hazard. Everyone in town has lost family members to sudden squalls, and everyone knows that, heavy and bulky as it is, you ALWAYS carry a heavy slicker, and you make your way quickly from one Wayshelter to the next." If a DM told you that, would you walk out of the game?

If the DM also told me that said heavy slicker is in fact useless, I sure as hell would say a few rude words to him.

D&D is a game. It's not a book, where characters are puppets that dance to the writer's whims. Give the PCs a save.

 

[takyris]

I know this is just an honest disagreement, but I feel like I have to keep picking this like a scab.

Hong, the heavy slicker wasn't useless. The heavy rain slicker would most likely be the difference between lasting long enough to get to or build a shelter.

Now, granted, the Call, as I thought about it, results in party split-ups, so for that reason, it's gone. But in terms of hurting the party... it doesn't. Any table I made for "When Call hits PCs" wouldn't involve them dying. Worst case, and let's say that we rule that PCs always stay together, they get introduced to a new plot hook by finding themselves somewhere new. And all their enemies are also affected, so there's little chance that someone is going to get the drop on them this way.

My assertion is that if I can make the effect of the Call like the effect of gravity -- a common effect that could conceivably damage someone who wasn't prepared but is not generally lethal -- then it wouldn't be unfair.

Your assertion is either that a) I can't do that, or b) That even if I DO succeed in making it an environmental hazard, I should give the PCs saves. Is this more or less correct? I'm not judging this assertion -- I'm thinking about it, and I want to make sure I have it right.

-Tacky

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Well, I liked the idea of making outsiders immune to it - the description of the monks that are able to resist it seems to allow it regularly, and failing saves can happen to often.

I believe that the autosave/autofailure rules are presented as optional or variant rule for everything except attack rolls, so I do not see the autosuccess as a real problem if you go the save route, which is probably the best.

 

[Utrecht]

Having also read the books - it is important to understand that the call is more of a force of nature - not quite as predictable as sunrise, but pretty close. It is certainly not something like a whale deciding that it is hungry and sending out the call.

Takyris, assuming that the PC understand that this is one of the "rules" of the world - I see no problem with no saves. After all, players realistically do no expect saves against the affects of gravity.

Another skill to perhaps create is Call Detection. Your PC has developed a highly developed sense for understanding with the call is coming - a successful check gives them Check-DC seconds to prepare.

Finally, I would strongly consider running this with D20 modern - especially considering the two main human settlements (Australia and the Rockies) do have a fairly elaborate tech base.

 

[ced1106]

My rule of thumb: NEVER remove free will from a PC, unless they're willing to roleplay it, or it's a combat situation.

By their ability to gain levels, PCs are unique. Therefore, it's reasonable to expect them to be resistant to The Call. OTOH, Any d*mn NPC you please cannot resist it, including the ones that owe the PC money.

OTOH, Be a jerk and say that any player who doesn't show up has his PC affected by the call. Oh, and they have to bring pizza. (;


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^

 

[barsoomcore]

Characters in my campaign are puppets. Yer darn tooting. And my players learn to like it or lump it. Snark.

Ah, Barsoom's got an awful no-save effect that's WAY worse than that -- anytime somebody casts a spell, they deal 1 point of temporary Constitution damage for each level of the spell to everyone around them. No save. Too bad.

You see somebody casting a spell, RUN. You get locked in a room with an angry spellcaster, BAD.

One of the players accidentally wiped out an entire inn just trying to recharge a magic item. It's not fair. It's not meant to be fair. It's meant to be awful and nasty and scary as all heck. And it is and my players love it. Magic is SCARY on Barsoom, even when it's on your side.

If your campaign is fun and your adventures rock and everybody gets into it, anything can fly. The Call sounds awesome and frankly, I'm stealing it.

Not so much for evil whales, though. More like evil horrible undead alien beasts that want to take over the world...

Cause it's Barsoom.

 

[megamania]

It's your game and you can fudge it as you want. "Roll" their saves for them.

"I'm sorry- everyone failed except for the kender and he wants to go anyway"