The problem with Distant Advantage

[MarkB]

Ok I think I got it. If 2 melees are in a standard flanking position (opposite sides of the enemy) any ranged attack from anywhere - no matter where I am - will grant me CA.

Not quite as good as I thought - I think my DM knew I was a noob and let me have it my way the first time around.

Yeah, it's good, but only if you have the right party for it. If the rest of your party is melee-heavy, and tactical enough that they often try to flank opponents, it'll work well for you - but if not, you may be better off looking elsewhere for achieving combat advantage.

 

[blargney the second]

I use a variation on the flanking dance where I use powers that include free shifts, like Inexorable Advance. I activate the power to shift into an adjacent flanking ally's space and whack twice with combat advantage, then use my move action to shift back to a free square.

Also, there are always readied actions. I like to ready attacks for when I get combat advantage.

 

[Neonchameleon]

There are melee rogues?

Indeed. And it's a very effective strategy, stronger for the party as a whole than a pure ranged rogue (even if a little more dangerous for the rogue). This is because encouraging the monsters to spread the damage around weakens them - and an extra person in melee does exactly that.

 

[Aenghus]

The players of melee rogues need to remember they are soft targets and to have good instincts about positioning.

Some players don't have those instincts and put themselves in the wrong place, and get attacked by multiple monsters. It does't take much of that to knock a rogue down, and because of their typically low number of healing surges, they can run out of them quickly.

For those players, given enough melee PCs in the party, the Distant Advantage feat is a good way of getting combat advantage from range, that allows them to do their job rather than being a burden on the party.

 

[KarinsDad]

The players of melee rogues need to remember they are soft targets and to have good instincts about positioning.

Some players don't have those instincts and put themselves in the wrong place, and get attacked by multiple monsters. It does't take much of that to knock a rogue down, and because of their typically low number of healing surges, they can run out of them quickly.

For those players, given enough melee PCs in the party, the Distant Advantage feat is a good way of getting combat advantage from range, that allows them to do their job rather than being a burden on the party.

I had a player who quit playing 4E over this. It was in the early days before Distant Advantage came out and his Rogue got smacked all over the place. No matter where he moved, he'd end up getting creamed. He just couldn't seem to get the knack of both moving in and getting sneak attack damage and moving out to get out of harms way. Finally, he quit 4E in disgust. Played with that guy for 4 years before that with him not having a problem. He moved over to Pathfinder.

 

[MarkB]

I use a variation on the flanking dance where I use powers that include free shifts, like Inexorable Advance. I activate the power to shift into an adjacent flanking ally's space and whack twice with combat advantage, then use my move action to shift back to a free square.

Also, there are always readied actions. I like to ready attacks for when I get combat advantage.

A Whistle of Warning is a nice item for the flanking dance. Once per encounter, all your allies get to shift as a free action. Time it right and you can shift them into flank just when you need it - or let them shift out of a difficult position just when they need it. Occasionally, both at once.

 

[CovertOps]

I had a player who quit playing 4E over this. It was in the early days before Distant Advantage came out and his Rogue got smacked all over the place. No matter where he moved, he'd end up getting creamed. He just couldn't seem to get the knack of both moving in and getting sneak attack damage and moving out to get out of harms way. Finally, he quit 4E in disgust. Played with that guy for 4 years before that with him not having a problem. He moved over to Pathfinder.

I'll have to get the exact build when I get home KD, but I had my bow ranger trying out (running 2 chars) a Halfling Rogue last Sat. At level 14 I don't think he had any defenses lower than 34-36 and frequently he had them up to 40+. I'm fairly sure there is something in the build/items he has that's broken, but figuring WHAT exactly that element is will be difficult.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I never had any real issue when playing my melee rogue. I had a fighter who was pretty good about enforcing his marks, so the DM made the monsters who were willing to ignore marks in favor of softer targets think about if they wanted the whack from the fighter.

Now, Distant Advantage would make my friend's ranged rogue much, much easier to pull off than the vast amount of effort she put into it.

Brad

 

[KarinsDad]

I'll have to get the exact build when I get home KD, but I had my bow ranger trying out (running 2 chars) a Halfling Rogue last Sat. At level 14 I don't think he had any defenses lower than 34-36 and frequently he had them up to 40+. I'm fairly sure there is something in the build/items he has that's broken, but figuring WHAT exactly that element is will be difficult.

That's scary high for level 14. Same level foes are ~+18 or so to hit (defense depending).