D&D 5E (2024) The Problem with Healing Powercreep

[James Gasik]

He then proceeds to solo the enemy in mid-air and come back as a hyper angel.

That's a prime case of DM fiat.

 

[jmartkdr2]

That's a prime case of DM fiat.

Well it is the DMPC

 

[Vaalingrade]

I like to imagine Gandalf was actually the only person (including the DM) that actually knows how the system works. Aragorn, oh he of the ancient lineage with a hot elf girlfriend who gets an army of ghosts is the bas DMPC.

 

[PHATsakk43]

Not saying it's per se "better," but there's a pretty famous moment where fleeing happens in some of D&D's seminal fiction...

"Fly, you fools!"

The Hobbit has the main characters mostly either fleeing from, hiding from, or generally avoiding encounters where they weren’t surprised. In the cases where they were surprised, they are poisoned, surrounded by overwhelming odds (to have to be rescued by DMPC Gandalf), or captured and stripped of their gear.

The few instances where they chose to engage, the troll scene in particular, it goes horribly against the party. And again the DMPC has to rescue them.

The only real successful combat was performed primarily off-stage in a DM cutscene because no one really wanted to run a Battlesystem scenario and it was just simulated with BECMI War Machine instead.

In most campaigns, Thorin & Co would have been awarded zero XP after their entire adventure.

 

[Emerikol]

<snip>

Some interesting ideas. I'm anti-surges in general but here is an idea I've been toying with...

At each level assign a healing HD (or HDs plural), this number will go up as people level up. Then have cure light wounds heal 1 x the HD of the PC being healed. Have cure serious wounds heal 2 x HD and so forth.

So a fighter might have 1d10 for levels 1 through 3. Maybe at 4 through 6 he has 2d10. So if you cast cure light wounds on a 4th level fighter it will heal 2d10 hit points but if you cast it on a 1st level fighter it will restore 1d10 hit points.

 

[PHATsakk43]

My thought has always been that the various cure XXX wounds spells should have just used the monster summoning nomenclature, i.e. cure wounds I thru VII with a number of d8s equal to the spell level. If you want to boost the healing, let it’s get a some additive value, say +1/3lvls of caster per die.

Then add a similar cure mass wounds I thru V starting at 3rd level that cures 1d4 per spell level to 1 creature per 2 caster levels within some radius.

Then give divine casters free casting. Never made sense to make them have to memorize the spells that their faith is supposed to be providing. Or if that is too lax, have the number of free casts per level based upon their wisdom score, such that the priest’s wisdom allows for them to have superior intuition about the necessary magic that will be needed.

I really prefer priests to free cast so that they don’t feel like heal bots. Let them have access to the rest of their utility spells and have the healing for emergency.

 

[Staffan]

Some interesting ideas. I'm anti-surges in general but here is an idea I've been toying with...

At each level assign a healing HD (or HDs plural), this number will go up as people level up. Then have cure light wounds heal 1 x the HD of the PC being healed. Have cure serious wounds heal 2 x HD and so forth.

So a fighter might have 1d10 for levels 1 through 3. Maybe at 4 through 6 he has 2d10. So if you cast cure light wounds on a 4th level fighter it will heal 2d10 hit points but if you cast it on a 1st level fighter it will restore 1d10 hit points.

The problem with that is that you'd be double-dipping on levels.

Let us, for the sake of argument, say that we'll go with the progression you suggest and extrapolate it: 1 HD per 3 levels, rounded up. Let's then look at the middle of each interval (2, 5, 8, 11), and let's further assume that we're talking about a fighter with Con 14 and using the 2014 standard of max hp at level 1, and half max +1 at each subsequent level.

Level 2: 20 hp, level 1 cure heals for 1d10 (average 5.5). 27% of max.
Level 5: 38 hp, level 3 cure heals for 6d10 (average 33). 87% of max.
Level 8: 56 hp, level 4 cure heals for 12d10 (average 66). 118% of max.
Level 11: 74 hp, level 6 cure heals for... well, kind of irrelevant because at that point you have heal.

You can massage the numbers to get different results, but they'll always have this sort of shape. The clever thing with 4e's healing surges was that they were sort of independent of level – they were always 25% of max hp, and you didn't get more of them as you leveled up. Something like that is basically the only way you can have both meaningful attrition and healing that's relevant in combat.

Then give divine casters free casting. Never made sense to make them have to memorize the spells that their faith is supposed to be providing. Or if that is too lax, have the number of free casts per level based upon their wisdom score, such that the priest’s wisdom allows for them to have superior intuition about the necessary magic that will be needed.

I really prefer priests to free cast so that they don’t feel like heal bots. Let them have access to the rest of their utility spells and have the healing for emergency.

3e gave clerics the ability to swap out prepared spells for cure spells, which was meant to have this effect. The result was that clerics loaded up on buffs and wreaked (wroke?) havoc.

 

[PHATsakk43]

3e gave clerics the ability to swap out prepared spells for cure spells, which was meant to have this effect. The result was that clerics loaded up on buffs and wreaked (wroke?) havoc.

As the gods intended.

 

[Staffan]

As the gods intended.

That's a funny way to spell "Monte Cook".

 

[Emerikol]

The problem with that is that you'd be double-dipping on levels.

Let us, for the sake of argument, say that we'll go with the progression you suggest and extrapolate it: 1 HD per 3 levels, rounded up. Let's then look at the middle of each interval (2, 5, 8, 11), and let's further assume that we're talking about a fighter with Con 14 and using the 2014 standard of max hp at level 1, and half max +1 at each subsequent level.

Level 2: 20 hp, level 1 cure heals for 1d10 (average 5.5). 27% of max.
Level 5: 38 hp, level 3 cure heals for 6d10 (average 33). 87% of max.
Level 8: 56 hp, level 4 cure heals for 12d10 (average 66). 118% of max.
Level 11: 74 hp, level 6 cure heals for... well, kind of irrelevant because at that point you have heal.

I think either I communicated my approach wrong or you misunderstood.
At 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level, a cure light wounds does 1d10 on a fighter and 1d6 on a wizard
At 4th, 5th, and 6th level, a cure light wounds does 2d10 on a fighter and 2d6 on a wizard
At 7th, 8th, 9th level, a cure light wounds does 3d10 on a fighter and 3d6 on a wizard

A cure serious wounds (the next one up I am assuming I don't own 5e)
At 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level, a cure light wounds does 2d10 on a fighter and 2d6 on a wizard
At 4th, 5th, and 6th level, a cure light wounds does 4d10 on a fighter and 4d6 on a wizard
At 7th, 8th, 9th level, a cure light wounds does 6d10 on a fighter and 6d6 on a wizard

A cure critical wounds (the next one up I am assuming I don't own 5e)
At 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level, a cure light wounds does 3d10 on a fighter and 3d6 on a wizard
At 4th, 5th, and 6th level, a cure light wounds does 6d10 on a fighter and 6d6 on a wizard
At 7th, 8th, 9th level, a cure light wounds does 9d10 on a fighter and 9d6 on a wizard

You can massage the numbers to get different results, but they'll always have this sort of shape. The clever thing with 4e's healing surges was that they were sort of independent of level – they were always 25% of max hp, and you didn't get more of them as you leveled up. Something like that is basically the only way you can have both meaningful attrition and healing that's relevant in combat.

The healing amount though is just like a surge. I use dice because it's more D&D like but that is the idea. The difference is you get unlimited surges but they can only be activated by magic. But for those of you liking non-magical healing, you could have one rest do your hit dice in healing. You could have a long rest do half your level rounded up in HD of healing.

3e gave clerics the ability to swap out prepared spells for cure spells, which was meant to have this effect. The result was that clerics loaded up on buffs and wreaked (wroke?) havoc.

I've wondered if healing as a subsystem should be separate from spells. I haven't decided yet.