The Punisher 'laughably awful'

[shouit]

Yes I remember it, it can't be worse then that version, can it? If it is then its worth seeing just to see how bad it is.

One review I read said, "Bring back Dolph."

That is bad.

 

[Desdichado]

Yeah... In particular considering that in the series the movie is loosely based on, Castle effortlessly wastes a hit-man hired to kill him, saying something along the lines of: "He was a sniper in Desert Storm - 20 confirmed kills. Not a bad little war - only problem with it..." guy's body hits sidewalk "...it wasn't Vietnam." :\

The whole point (and I'm not a fan, BTW, I don't care that they changed it) was that Vietnam is a very specific breeding ground, in fiction, for the "disturbed loner with gruesome past" type of character, and that's what the original Castle seemed to be all about - once his family is killed, it all resurfaces. Substituting something else doesn't work.

It doesn't work if you use that line. Otherwise, I think you're being pedantic. A soldier in any war can breed disturbed loners with a gruesome past believably enough.

 

[WizarDru]

For years, his version of The Punisher has been lambasted as the worst comic book adaptation to hit the big screen.

The devil it has. There are films that have been held up as much, much worse than the first Punisher film. "Batman and Robin" is routinely presented as one of the worst, as was Corman's "Fantastic Four", and let's not forget virtually any attempt at Captain America or the live action Justice League pilot. And that's just getting started.

And....Latino Review? Who are they?


Anyhow, here's what RottenTomatoes says: currently at 39%, but it's early yet with only 18 reviews.
By way of comparison, Hellboy has 77%, with 140 reviews.
Spiderman garnered 89% with 168 reviews, ultimately.
Batman and Robin garnered a 13%, with only 40 reviews.

Further comparison: imdb gives Spiderman a 7.6 (46K votes), The first Punisher movie a 4.6 (1.3K), B&R a 3.4 (23K votes) and Hellboy (3.2K votes) a 6.9. Of course, imdb tends to be very unreliable as a measure, since it's so prone to snipe and payback-voting. (people intentionally voting 1s and 10s to influence the overall rating, for example). And of course, box-office gross might be considered to have a say. Compare the $230 million that B&R made globally against, say, the similar amount made by Superman: The Movie. (however, B&R cost 110 million, while Superman cost $40, and made almost two decades apart). Note also that the Dolph punisher move was made for $10 million, and released direct to video....so technically, there hasn't been a theatrically released Punisher movie, either way.

As for story integrity...well, how many folks here recall that Frank Castle wasn't his original name? How many recall that he was brought back from the dead by Angels? That he gunned down some people for jaywalking after he snapped, later written that he was under the influence of psychotropics he'd been drugged with while in prison. I mean, he's been around for thirty years: he's got just as much goofy backstory as the next guy. In some ways, the 'Frank's Back' arc by Ennis ignores a huge chunk of this backstory, for sanity's sake. But being true to the comic is not always a good criteria to use.

Of course, it sounds like the film is probably just 'OK'....which is a disappointment, but that just means I'll go see Kill Bill vol. 2, instead.

 

[Villano]

The devil it has. There are films that have been held up as much, much worse than the first Punisher film. "Batman and Robin" is routinely presented as one of the worst, as was Corman's "Fantastic Four", and let's not forget virtually any attempt at Captain America or the live action Justice League pilot. And that's just getting started.

And....Latino Review? Who are they?

And who are any other reviewers and why do we listen to them? Ain't It Cool? Who are they? :\

Personally, I actually kind of like the first Punisher and feel that B&R is one of the worst films ever made.

That said, arguing over someone's assertion that some people consider it the worst comic adaption is ridiculous. There are many people who do. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean that their opinions cease to exist. Hell, I was just looking over the imdb and was amazed that there were people proclaiming that Matrix: Reloaded was a masterpiece and one of the greatest films ever made.

And, just as an aside, the Justice League pilot and Fantastic Four were never legitimately released. AFAIK, they only exist as bootlegs. Most people haven't actually seen them.

BTW, Punisher did play theatrically in other countries. In fact, it was a US/Australian co-production and did get a theatre release in Australia.

 

[WizarDru]

And who are any other reviewers and why do we listen to them? Ain't It Cool? Who are they? :\

Actually, what I was looking for was: "Latino Review is a Web Site dedicated to bringing Reviews of the latest American Movies to the English speaking Latin-American audience. Our reviewers are young Latinos based in Los Angeles and New York, and offer a fresh perspective of movies from the nations fastest growing Markets." I wasn't being snarky or questioning their credentials...I just wanted to know who they were. The name didn't say 'movie review site' to me, so I was curious.

I agree, they're just as qualified as Harry Knowles and his gang of malcontents. More so, probably, since they aren't hard-core movie geeks, and have a more mainstream perspective.

That said, arguing over someone's assertion that some people consider it the worst comic adaption is ridiculous. There are many people who do. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean that their opinions cease to exist.

That's not what I was saying, however poorly I expressed it. The reviewer implied (or maybe I inferred) that the fan community in general agreed that the Punisher was the worst comic adaption ever done, bar none, and had been expressing that for years. Maybe I've missed it, but that's just plain wrong. I have no doubt that some people think it is that...but my experience has been that other films, B&R in particular are commonly referred to as the worst comc adaption ever, and are far more likely to have been referred to in comics, websites, conventions and everywhere I've been in the last ten years. The first Punisher movie didn't even make the radar, by comparison.

And, just as an aside, the Justice League pilot and Fantastic Four were never legitimately released. AFAIK, they only exist as bootlegs. Most people haven't actually seen them.

I know, and they should be thankful, at least in the case of the JLA pilot. The FF movie actually isn't the worst job ever done, but it was bad...just not legendarily bad, IMHO...I liked the way they did the Thing, for example, and some characterizations weren't bad...but overall it was Corman cheez. And the Punisher was released in Germany too, iirc. But no US release means that lots of fans today may not even realize it ever existed, until the new film brought it back into the collective consciousness.

Which, for the record, makes me feel really OLD.

 

[Endur]

There was a live-action Justice League pilot on TV in the late 70's or early 80's. I don't remember any super-power action, but I do recall seeing it.

 

[Villano]

I wasn't being snarky or questioning their credentials...I just wanted to know who they were. The name didn't say 'movie review site' to me, so I was curious.

S'okay. My fault, too. Hopefully, I didn't come off as too defensive.

They're actually a surprisingly good site. They gave Hellboy a good review even though, iirc, they had never heard of the comic. In other words, they aren't film snobs who look down upon comic films.

And the Punisher was released in Germany too, iirc. But no US release means that lots of fans today may not even realize it ever existed, until the new film brought it back into the collective consciousness.

Which, for the record, makes me feel really OLD.

For a time, Punisher was playing pretty regularly on tv. Also, you can check out the cheap dvd bin at Wal-Mart. I think they're under $5 (along with the remake of Godzilla, Last Action Hero, 10 different giant snake films, and the D&D Movie).

 

[Dragonblade]

Punisher is one of my favorite characters. The war analogy is a very good one.

Sadly, I don't think the typical Hollywood writer really gets the character.

The Punisher is sort of the darker Batman, or the dark opposite of Captain America.

The Punisher is this mythic underworld figure. A unstoppable, almost inhuman terminator who cannot be bribed, reasoned with, or intimidated. And he absolutely will not stop. Ever. Until every last piece of criminal scum is dead. He hunts them down mercilessly. No quarter asked and none given. The guilty will be punished. Period.

Like Batman, his very name strikes fear into the hearts of even the most hardened criminals. To cops and a lot of people, he is a legend. To criminals, a nightmare. No one ever gets the drop on him. He never loses. He always has a backup plan. Few criminals who have ever seen him live to tell the tale. And he always leaves a pile of dead bad guys in his wake.

Thats the Punisher movie I want to see.

 

[Dragonblade]

Actually, the first one isn't really so bad. If he was wearing a skull t-shirt, I don't think many people would be complaining.

BTW, does the lead in the new one look kind of like Christopher Lambert? Or is that just me?

I totally agree! Even on the Christopher Lambert thing. They could be brothers! And every time he opens his mouth I half expect to hear Lambert's voice!

 

[NeoSamurai]

I watched the movie and all I could say is they nailed the character of the Punisher. It was dark with humor used to endear the audience to some of the supporting characters and violently grizzly with the use of some of those characters.

The creation of the Punisher in the movie is not lauded with the same heroic poses of Spiderman, Batman 1 and Daredevil or the promise of heroic action as the Hulk but with a "look what's been unleashed and it's not good" manner.

Additionally, from what I understand of the backstory for this incarnation of the Punisher, the war he fought in was not Desert Storm. It was one of the many police actions in Bosnia which is just as nasty.

The movie could've been better, but it isn't as bad as many of the critics are pushing. It's a simple movie with a simple story that doesn't really make an effort to be anything but a revenge tale and a story about what grief can do to a person. It's unabashedly violent (the R for pervasive violence should be a clue there!). It's not epic. It's not heroic. It's about a guy with guns doing what he feels he needs to do to some really great scoring by a guy who studied under the composer for the music of a Fistfull of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, and the good the bad and the ugly with as much violence as those flicks.

Some people will like it for what it is. Some will hate it for what it is. In either case, I thought it was great entertainment.


NeoSamurai