The purpose of D&D's evolution?

Joshua Dyal said:
What the...? Are you serious? I'm not a particularly cynical person, but of course people get into business to make money. If that's not why they go into business, they very quickly go out of business. And even a cursory glance at the history of D&D will show that of course it was about making money.

By producing and marketing a product that the creators liked quite a bit, no doubt, but still. That post you responded to was not cynical at all.

I agree. I put it this way. There are two conventional definitions for the term 'professionall'

1) somebody who performs a service for payment.

2) somebody who holds the service they provide to a higher level of quality.

The two definitions are not mutually exclusive. You can love what you do, take pride in what you do...yet still keep focus on the bottom line. Those who make money doing what they love are among the most fortunate people of us all.
 

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OD&D>AD&D and OD&D>BD&D were related. There's a 1977 Dragon article that explains it all. Essentially, what was originally a supplement to a supplement of a war game had grown into a pretty popular game in its own right with rules scattered between a boxed set, two sets of miniature rules, four more supplements, and a bunch of The Strategic Review and The Dragon articles. Plus there was a bunch of other stuff out there that was quasi-official that a lot of fans didn't know what to do with.

Thus TSR decided to do 1) a comprehensive 4 volume version of the game for the dedicated fans (Advanced D&D) and 2) an introductory boxed set for beginners (Basic D&D). OD&D was to be continued for the fans of that version of the game, and printings of the boxed set and the Supplements continued right up to 1980.

The reasoning for BD&D>B/X D&D seems to have been that BD&D sold beyond TSR's expectations (per a 1979 Dragon article) and they wanted a more coherant progression from the Basic box. The Basic box didn't exactly flow into either the AD&D or OD&D rules. So, they made the new Basic>Expert boxes, which were still essentially the OD&D rules minus all the supplements, for beginners and those who didn't want a rule-set as heavy as AD&D.

The only reference from anybody regarding Dave Arneson in the D&D re-designs that I've heard was from Frank Mentzer in a post on Dragonsfoot with regard to the design of his edition (1983+) of D&D.

AD&D1>AD&D2: Gary Gygax announced that he and Frank Mentzer were working on a 2nd edition in 1985. This was largely going to be a consolodation of existing rules, plus the addition of a few more classes, because, as with OD&D, the rules had begun to be scattered over a plethora of rule books, magazine articles, etc. It wasn't going to be the radical re-design that actually occurred. Work had progress on it through 1987, when both Gary and Frank left (were booted from) the company. Dave 'Zeb' Cook and Steve Winters began 2nd edition all over again. They're design goals seemed to have been:
1. Forstall any IP rights that previous authors may have;
2. Pacify the enraged mommies;
3. Make the game as customizable and generic as possible, while holding onto the same basic design.

Of course, they concentrated more on the second half of that clause in #3, whereas the 3e designers concentrated more on the first half of the clause. The cynic in me says that #3 was done simply to sell more rules supplements, although I'm sure a lot of gamers were arguing TSR was giving the fans what they wanted.

R.A.
 
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I have always been struck by the irony that the Holmes/Moldvay-Cook/Mentzer branch of basic D&D was always portrayed as the true inheritor of original D&D, when in fact it was mechancially a pretty significant departure from the OD&D system -- genetically, Basic D&D is more of a cousin than a child of OD&D.

And on the other hand, while AD&D was always portrayed as a system radically different from original D&D, it was in fact a clear, direct descendant of the original game. AD&D really just collected and expanded all of the original D&D material that had been scattered accross the little booklets, the Strategic Review, and The Dragon.
 
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Quasqueton said:
Why did Gygax evolve OD&D into AD&D?

Why did Holmes evolve OD&D into BD&D?

Why did Moldvay evolve original BD&D into B/XD&D?

Why did TSR evolve AD&D1 into AD&D2?

What was the purpose of OD&D evolving at all beyond the original brown books?

Quasqueton

No questions about 3e? I would have been glad to field that.
 




Despite his overt snarkiness, JR does have a worthwhile point. The development of 3e does not seem to be an exercise in simply improving upon the base of previous works. Rather 3e strikes me as being something of a reimagining what Dungeons and Dragons could be. Mechanically, there is very little in the way of similarities between AD&D and 3e. On a mechanical level 3e has more similarities with more open ended mechanically consistant systems than it does with AD&D. I'd say that 3e is AD&D's spiritual descendant, but not it's mechanical descendent. While other people might have a problem with that, I have no such issues.
 

Yeah, not that that's what he meant. I've heard of sequels that they can be evolutionary or revolutionary, and I agree that 3e went more of the latter, while 2e was more of the former.
 

Quasqueton said:
What was the purpose of OD&D evolving at all beyond the original brown books?
Man, did you ever read the brown books? They are almost incomprhensible, with atrocious layout and odious art. I would play GURPS or HARP if it was still OD&D. Besides, OD&D would have been out of print and totally forgotten if it still was the brown books.

It requires the mind of a genius to be able to play with the old brown books. Nobody can hope to reach Diaglo's IQ to be able to enjoy that game... :uhoh: (I want to not get involved in any flamewar, :heh: )
 

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