The 'Racist' Tapestry of LotR

[Nightfall]

I should say, "everyone has a right to be offended, just don't expect society to mold itself after your hangups"

Not unless you have the power and means to back it up.

Btw I didn't reply either. Mostly because I don't feed idiots.

Also would like to say to Darrin this: 9/11 was justifiable in attacking Afganastan. Iraq...I'm finding myself going on man. (Mind you this was well after the whole chasing out the Taliban to the outskirts. I still believe you don't kill a bunch of mosiquites with tanks shells. You just spray them and keep on alert until they come back. Cause they will.)

 

[Dark Jezter]

Nightfall, Whisperfoot. I'm no moderator, but could you please not turn this into a discussion about politics? I don't want to see this thread closed.

 

[The Serge]

I've heard about this for two days now and I just had the opportunity to read it. And, I'm not surprised. What I find ironic about this article is that it's apparently written by "white" European (French, I think someone said) and not by a person of color...

I think that it is easy to apply the standard of cultural/ethnic/racial insensitivity on LotR in the same way it's easy to point out homoerotic images in Batman and Robin or Nazi references in Superman. But I've always been of the opinion that easy-to-find metaphors and "symbols" are often likely to be, at best, found as a result of shallow exposure.

I'm an African American. To this day, after reading the books and watching the movies over the past 15 years, I still don't see any racist material in this.

LotR is a mythology for England. As such, it stands to reason that it will largely feature "white" people. And, since England lies in the west of Eurasia, it stands to reason that the parallel between its real-life location and the statement Aragorn (not Theoden) makes in the movie about "Men of the West" is there. And let's consider the imagery of the various allies of Sauron... In LotR, as in much of Western European color symbolism, black and white often represent good and evil. To a degree, Tokien follows this... To a degree. Gandalf the Grey is clearly not "neutral" and Sauruman the White quickly reveals himself to be evil (and Many-Colored... something he also really isn't). Many Elves have very dark features (black hair and such) and, considering some of the images I've seen, remind me of either Asians or Native Americans.

I find it interesting that the writer refers to Tolkien, but then doesn't bother to really clarify what he thinks Tolkien was trying to say about race. Frankly, if anything, I would say that Tolkien was very much a multicultural person, except he wasn't using the obvious (and, at the time in which he was writing this stuff, it wouldn't have been obvious) human "racial" breakdowns. The fact that it required Elves and Men to defeat Sauron in the first War of the Ring, and then all the races of Middle-Earth to oppose him the second time, forcing them to put aside their differnces in the face of a greater threat, reveals an attitude I wouldn't expect from a man of his age in that time (regardless of his education).

And let's consider the context here as well. We are talking about a man who was writing a mythology for England. He wasn't writing one for Africa or the Americas or Asia. This is reflected in the films. I would have been somewhat disappointed if Jackson decided to throw in a black actor to play a major role since that clearly would have been done to avoid criticism rather than to promote the nature of Tolkien's stories. Indeed, I'm pleased that we didn't see any people of clear African descent in this film (including among the Uruk-Hai and Orcs).

I am a liberal. I agree that there needs to be greater inclusiveness in our society. On the other hand, when folks decide to analyze elements of popular culture to determine where we need to shore up, such people really need to examine their intent and do some research before they open their mouths. All this person's done is further erode any drive to promote diversity since he's clearly made a huge donkey out of himself.

 

[shilsen]

Opens mouth to comment...

Reads The Serge's post...

Shuts mouth and applauds. 'Nuff said.

 

[Geoff Watson]

I'm an African American.

As an aside, are you really African?

One of my friends is African, and gets strongly annoyed when people call themselves African American when they really mean Black-skinned American, which seems to be really common.

Why do they call themselves African?

Geoff.

 

[Darrin Drader]

Not unless you have the power and means to back it up.

Btw I didn't reply either. Mostly because I don't feed idiots.

Also would like to say to Darrin this: 9/11 was justifiable in attacking Afganastan. Iraq...I'm finding myself going on man.

Well, if you think I was for that war, go read my blog. I talk about all kinds of things that I can't otherwise talk about here. Well, once I add a few more updates anyway. I'd be happy to continue this conversation elsewhere.

All this person's done is further erode any drive to promote diversity since he's clearly made a huge donkey out of himself.

Good call! I'm all for diversity when it comes about naturally, not when its injected. For example - the cast of The Matrix is good diversity since all the races of mankind were represented in a context that made sense and promoted a positive image of everyone involved (with the notable exception of the French ) without promoting typical stereotypes. The crew of Star Trek Voyager is not an example of good diversity, in my opinion, since it seemed to artificially inject it, though the characters were otherwise very much made of cardboard.

 

[WayneLigon]

That's pretty silly, indeed; almost as silly as people who read racial overtones into the drow.

 

[Umbran]

Why do they call themselves African?

Because, back when black-skinned humans came to the American continents, there were only two places to get that skin tone - Australia and Africa. Yes, some of the "African Americans" did a stop off in the Carribean first, but they pretty much all originated in Africa.

Whether they deserve the title culturally is a matter for debate somewhere other than in this forum.

[edit: Hr. You know, we just don't have enough color words. I needed to use "black-skinned", even though I know that many or most of them aren't literally black, but are instead various shades of brown. However, brown also describes many Native Americans, who aren't really "red". Darned language limitations ]

 

[Alcareru]

I am constantly exasperated by pundits who crop up at every release of an LOTR movie to play this card. While social decontructivism has a place in some areas of study, it is misplaced in an analysis of the LOTR for any deeper meaning about the social and political goings of the world.

And while we know little of Prof Tolkiens inner feelings on race relations and politics (as far as can be discerned, he was a fairly apolitical person) we can see how he felt about such universal themes as spirtuality, heroism and loyalty. Like any writer he wrote about what he knew best: in this case Anglo/Northern European myths.

A sad thing about this is that the myths, histories, and lore he loved so much have been forever tarred by the vile brush of Nazi ideology. "Germanic" and "Nordic" lore and history was coopted by that regime- a situation touched upon by Tolkien in one of his letters to his son.

Anyway, enough is enough IMHO. BTW there is an outstanding defense of this called "The Shadow of Racism" which was on theonering.net website. Its been taken down now since its part of the their book The Peoples Guide to JRR Tolkien. I recomend that essay to anyone.

 

[Chain Lightning]

Flexor the Mighty! wrote:

It was racism in Star Wars:The Phantom Menace when the Trade Guild guys were deemed to be, "Too asian" and may offend.

Y'know, funny thing about that whole thing, I'm an American of Asian ethnicity and.......I was never offended by the Trade Federation guys. I was just offended by the suckiness of the movie itself.

The writer of the article has his heart in the right place...but he's fighting his fight all in the wrong ways. I do wish there were more diversity and equality on the big screen. But I don't cry 'racism' when I don't see an Asian person being represented. LotR takes place in Middle-Earth.....the story revolves around certain races.....it is what it is. No racism here. I never for once thought there was any obvious or even subtle tones of racism at all. I agree with The Serge on all he said. A large part of this story has to do with mulitple races working together to battle evil. 'Nuff said.

Things that I think are somewhat racially offensive are things that continue to promote the Hollywood stereo-type of the impotent asian male while at the same time making the asian female 'the exotic flower of the east' object of desire. How many American made movies do you know where the Asian female spurns all her asian male suitors until one day ...magically....a beautiful caucasian male comes along to give her exactly what she's been always dreaming of?

Hollywood just doesn't get it. They don't realize that a lot more of the 'real world' has risen above ethnicity barriers a lot longer ago than they think. You can have a movie with no lead male caucasian actor and it will be fine. People will see it. You can have a female lead middle-eastern character and people will like it. Its all about the quality of the story, directing and performance.


I have a pretty ethnically diverse circle of friends and we've had discussions on this. Which of our races gets shafted the most in Hollywood more? Its always a funny subject matter. My African-American friend hates when we refer to him as 'African-American'....he just says, "I hate that term, I'm a black guy...c'mon now....."

We talk about the usual, black guy gets killed first.....asian guy doesn't get to kiss the girl.....the latino guy has a criminal or shady background...... blah, blah, blah...

But no matter how bad we think we got it....we have all concluded...the ethnic group to get the worst from Hollywood are those of middle-eastern background.