I think there are maybe two different points being made in this thread. My understanding is the first point is it is a problem to have a monster with cultural features from a culture that isn't in the game because that then becomes a stand in for the culture itself. That any traits the genie has, would therefore have to be a commentary on arabs. This seems very different from the point you are making which would be, regardless of whether there is an arabic culture in the setting, it is going to be an issue if your genies embody negative stereotypes of Arabs. That is a more involved discussion. I think where we might disagree is on the layers aspect (i.e. whether something is truly being used as a negative stereotype or just superficially seems to be, or when viewed through a certain lens, like Said's Orientalism, appears to be). The latter is a topic probably best served in another thread. Because I think it is much broader and larger than what the OP seemed to be saying.
You're... halfway there. It's not necessarily bad that genies reflect back on Arab culture. This can be done well and without being problematic. The problem you have Efreets, who embody a bunch of terrible stereotypes of Arab culture. In this case, it's just particularly egregious.
May not be used well by who ? My problem is that it's immediately translated from a vague feeling of the OP on specific monsters to a huge general concern about cultures, and then not any culture, only non-european.
I'm sorry, but at this stage, isn't it solely about the OP to question himself about those specific feelings ? And in particular with regards to european monsters who are actually used in a stereotypical manner, for example on fey and celtic undertones ?
I mean, you might have a point there if they were used bad, though Europeans getting European-myth wrong is generally less harmful than someone outside of a group taking it and using it wrongly.
Unfortunately not, the most virulent attacks do not come from the community, which is why I find it sad and annoying that it's relayed from inside the community, especially since it's as flimsy as this case is. It's even more annoying because the external focus bears solely upon two races (orcs and drows) and has now transformed into a wide witch hunt about races within the game.
Uh, this is absolutely coming from within the community. I mean, this thread was started here from someone who is clearly part of the community. This fortress mentality is useless.
D&D has made obvious mistakes and is in the process of correcting those. And it would be waaaayyy easier if people stopped piling more on the plate when there are not mistakes. Again, where is the mistake in this case ? Just someone feeling uncomfortable about something not even precisely written down but about his own personal interpretation of a number of sources does not make it a mistake in D&D.
And for me, that is the problem, people immediately assuming that a mistake has been made, that there is a problem and that it needs a solution.
So if you think there has been a mistake, please explain to us exactly what that mistake was...
Uh, the problem is that the OP wanted a discussion and you really
don't. OP didn't have an immediate problem, but pointed out that these creatures have been made as stand-ins for different cultures. Given what they do, I kind of understand it (especially in the case of genies). That you're reflexively sensitive to that doesn't matter to me.
It is something I have observed, and I am certain many posters here can chime and verify they have observed it too. I just don't want to put a target on any product, designer or critic who is on either side of this discussion (and I think that is a valid concern, because even if I object to the trend, I don't want to see someone who agrees with the trend and uses it in their design get heat because of a thread like this). But I assure you, this isn't a figment. It is based on real things I've observed over the last several years.
I don't want to call anyone out either, but I'll attest that I've observed this also.
There are people who aren't releasing certain projects because of how they will be judged in the RPGspace? Have any projects stopped because of this? Like, vague fears being out there feels more like a self-inflicted thing more than anything.
Then please explain why a Rakshasa coming from India and doing bad things makes some people uncomfortable...
I mean, that's not what the OP said, which at this point tells me that you're so stuck in defense that you actually haven't read what this thread started as.
You are simplifying. What my concern was, was people misunderstanding my work, or reading things into it I never intended. But I think the outcome of following that concern, was that it reduced the quality of the material. And I can look back at some things I've made and see that, and be critical. So this isn't a fear of others criticizing my work, or a fear of going back myself and seeing its flaws. It is more of a fundamental disagreement with the approach being advocated for arts and games. You seem to trust that this process of collectively editing a work of art or game to be less problematic, is going to lead to better content. I think it is more likely to produce pablum.
Can you point to an example of pablum being produced? Like, do you have a good example of something being so watered down that it didn't stand up? I know the new Zakara supplement on GM's guild got a lot of good will. Was that pablum? Mwangi Expanse got rave reviews; was that watered down in some way?
Again, I just don't see these fears borne out. It feels more like an excuse to feel this way more than anything.
Well, I was talking about genies. And regarding rakshasa, who is going to read about them and assume a broad generalization is being made about people from India? How ignorant do you think the average TTRPG consumer is?
I mean, people who know something of India? It depends on the portrayal, per OP. If anything, you could probably push for a revamp of the Rakshasas given that the D&D version are not exactly the same as they are in Hindu myth. Or more accurately, they're inspired by an episode of
Kolchak.
Yes, absolutely. A prominent video essayist who was one of the pioneers of the format recently got driven off of Youtube by a concentrated and extensive harassment campaign over a misread of single Tweet that was incorrectly perceived to be culturally insensitive, to the point where they weren't just harassing her, but also every person she professionally associated with. If you have a spare hour an a half, you can learn about it
here.
If you're talking about Lindsey Ellis, I already know that saga because I was subscribed to her. I don't see that as a real fear for anyone given that we exist in the RPG space, which doesn't attract the same sort of attention and people that Lindsey sadly did. Moreover, I feel like the mobs work on the other side: I've seen minority members get mobbed on Twitter for suggesting things or asking to look at things. I'm not sure I've seen creators mobbed for not being sufficiently "woke".
