D&D General The rapier in D&D

[Mannahnin]

Rapiers in D&D. A source of concern since 2000. Time truly is a flat circle.

They were in 2e as well. There I think the concern was that they didn't do enough damage to justify the proficiency, and wouldn't show up on the magic weapon table (a concern for anything introduced after the DMG).

I think Remathilis meant source of concern in the same sense we're seeing in this thread. That they don't fit the period feel/envisioned tech level lots of folks have for D&D, and that they unbalance the game by elevating Dex further as a god stat and devaluing Strength.

 

[Azzy]

Rapiers in D&D. A source of concern since 2000. Time truly is a flat circle.

Oh, it predates that by 11 years.

 

[Umbran]

I asked you to name an example of a rapier being used as an officer sidearm, and the one example you came up with was a modern musketeer unit. I don't move the goalposts, you never cleared the first one. Own goal.

Mod Note:
Hey, folks!

You see this analogy to scoring points in an internet discussion?
It tells me that folks in the discussion are becoming more interested in scoring points, in "winning", than exchanging ideas or learning.

That may feel good to you, but it isn't of much value to anyone else. So maybe reconsider it going forward. Thanks.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Oh, it predates that by 11 years.

And all circles are flat (two dimensional). What, scoring points with silly arguments? Never!

 

[Remathilis]

I think Remathilis meant source of concern in the same sense we're seeing in this thread. That they don't fit the period feel/envisioned tech level lots of folks have for D&D, and that they unbalance the game by elevating Dex further as a god stat and devaluing Strength.

While rapiers were part of 2e via supplement, 3e put them in the PHB with the explicit expectation it was the "Dex fighter sword" and preferred weapon of rogues. The concerns voiced here were similar to those 2000 era ones (which ran counterpoint to dwarf necromancers gnome barbarians as proof 3e was ruining D&D). There is nothing new under the Sun.

 

[Chaltab]

While rapiers were part of 2e via supplement, 3e put them in the PHB with the explicit expectation it was the "Dex fighter sword" and preferred weapon of rogues. The concerns voiced here were similar to those 2000 era ones (which ran counterpoint to dwarf necromancers gnome barbarians as proof 3e was ruining D&D). There is nothing new under the Sun.

What's wrong with Dwarf Necromancers and Gnomish Barbarians?

 

[Mannahnin]

While rapiers were part of 2e via supplement, 3e put them in the PHB with the explicit expectation it was the "Dex fighter sword" and preferred weapon of rogues. The concerns voiced here were similar to those 2000 era ones (which ran counterpoint to dwarf necromancers gnome barbarians as proof 3e was ruining D&D). There is nothing new under the Sun.

I remember the same.

In 2E they were pretty marginal, and 2E used supplements to support all kinds of settings and historical periods, so there was no uproar over them.

Once they made them core in 3E and gave them excellent stats, they started to be controversial.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Rapiers were suitable for warfare in the same sense pistols were suitable for warfare WW1 till today. Both weapons have similar purpose. First and foremost, they are mark of status and authority ( officers weapons), after that, they are self defense backup weapon. Both weapons are also primarily civilian self defense tools.

They were also used by musketeers and dragoons, as the only sidearm for some non-officer cavalry, etc, so while it may mostly have been a status symbol, they were absolutely also a legitimate weapon of war.

But to the point of the thread, a civilian's self defense weapon is a perfectly reasonable D&D weapon, anyway! If we can fight dragons with farming implements we can fight them with things designed to kill.

When we look at fiction where rapier is main weapon of protagonists, it's mostly in urban, civilian or semi civilian setting, with one on one duels or small groups going at each other.

Which suits D&D, regardless of the rest of the thread.