D&D 4E The reason 4E doesn't work well except for "Dungeon Delves" or "Encounters"

[jbear]

I'm just going to take issue with the title of the thread.

I've played since AD&D. Played 3.5 and 4e. By far my coolest campaign was the one I ran was using 4e. There are other factors independent of the system involved like my age, the time I invested in it over a sustained period of time and my players for example that made the campaign so memorable.

But nonetheless the campaign was incredibly cool. I found nothing limiting about the system. Adding flavour I wished to be present was a matter of the greatest simplicity. So, as far as I am concerned stating that 4e is only good at X or Y is more of a reflection of the abilities of the person making the statement and not the limitations of the system.

 

[the Jester]

We have "Domain Turns" of a month-duration each. We calculated it out to be just about a month long to do the whole town (as some have noted above).


And yes I agree.. as the DM I could easily have all those things happen.. I could also have a meteorite "randomly" fall from orbit and crush their town...

I prefer not to be a dick.

So you are complaining that, because you aren't running rituals by the rules, the rules for rituals are broken?

And that, because you won't play intelligent monsters as if they have any intelligence, the pcs can outsmart them?

The problem here ain't 4e, mang.

I've been running a 4e campaign since it came out. My game is pretty darn sandboxy- there are lots of plot threads for the pcs to follow, but it's up to them which ones they are going to pursue. And my game has been quite successful outside of encounters. Now, I'll totally grant you that 4e focuses on the encounter at the expense of the campaign, but your problems seem to be coming from the fact that you are letting your players do whatever they want with rituals, despite the rules attached, and you won't let your monsters be effectively intelligent, despite the fact that there is no reason they shouldn't be (at least, the intelligent ones).

 

[Quickleaf]

As a DM it's a good idea to know your player's capabilities; I spent a bit of time reading over various rituals because the party wizard was making clever use of them. Sometimes I'm not the brightest at thinking on my feet (ok, sometimes I'm a dolt), so having an idea of what they can do with those rituals helps me be prepared to roll withthe punches and come up with creative enemy strategies.

Heads up if you plan on a scenario where thy have to find/detect a hidden undead - the ritual Corpse Light allows them to do it magically.

 

[Ferrety]

Well, I am running the Kingmaker AP using 4ed rules, and we've had sort of opposite problem from you. My players (mainly former 3ed casters) find rituals lackluster and too expensive compared to their power, and have more or less ignored them. So it might be good idea to offer a possibility to cast that kind of "megarituals", by spending more time and/or money. Of course, my players would except me to be a dick, and to have the BBEG to do its best in breaking the ward, so they'd never assume such a thing would last. And similarly, I'd assume that the players would try to break any wards made by the BBEG (and thus, be dicks?).

I've allowed use of powers outside combat (isn't that written somewhere in the rulebooks), so instead of rituals, characters have been using their powers to do special (by usually having a bonus to a skill check).

For me, having all foes as same type has always been problem in D&D, as some of my players tend to roleplay their characters as professional adventurers (or optimizing munchkins). So the undead felt marginalized quite fast in my necromantic sandboxy 3.5ed campaign. My feeling is that this would happen with 4ed too.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Um. Fighters can use rituals. Just takes one feat.

Two

Skill arcane or religion
Ritual Casting.

 

[Klaus]

Two

Skill arcane or religion
Ritual Casting.

If backgrounds are in use, just take one that grants Arcana or Religion as a class skill, and take Ritual Caster as a feat.

Rituals got much sexier with the addition of feats that built upon a character's ability to use rituals, and with short-casting-time rituals.

 

[Ryujin]

Two

Skill arcane or religion
Ritual Casting.

At most 2. At least one if you can acquire both by multi-classing, as I did. That presumes the character in question doesn't have the skill as a class skill, or didn't acquire it as a class skill by taking an appropriate background.

 

[Hejas]

I can't believe how idiotic the original post is - no offence. Instead of asking the community about the ways to deal with the problems he is experiencing in his game, he basically says 4E is broken and works only as a hack&slash system. Come on, that's exactly why some people actually think 4E is a dumbed up "MMO" version of Dungeons&Dragons.

Admin here. If you have to say "no offense", then you certainly know you're being offensive. Not a good idea. It's fine (and interesting) to disagree with someone, especially if your opposing view makes the thread more interesting. It's not okay to insult them. Next time, please choose a different approach. Thanks. - Piratecat

It is perfectly fine for roleplaying and "sandboxing" - deal with it.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Huh. Never noticed that before. All the more reason that class skills need to die in a fire. That said, you can also get new class skills via backgrounds, though, really, class skills just need to die forever.

One feat.

Bardic Ritualist and Divine Secretkeeper give you relevant skill trainings and ritual casting (and MC bard or invoker) for a single feat.

I've been trying to stick to core rules for quite a while. Still, Bardic Ritualist sounds like it might have been in the PH2.

 

[Ryujin]

I've been trying to stick to core rules for quite a while. Still, Bardic Ritualist sounds like it might have been in the PH2.

Arcane Power, actually. I had my Feylock take both Bardic Dilettante (PHB2) and Bardic Ritualist (Arcane Power), to give the flavour of musical Fey magic.