The reason for the cleric class' lack of popularity?

[woodelf]

I know parents who still won’t let their kids read C.S. Lewis. And he was a religious man.

Pagan parents, right? Or are they just that ignorant?

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Cleric does not mean "user of sanctioned magic" in anyone's book. Even if I were to accept your formulation of Middle Earth magic, which I don't, you still can't force a brand new definition on the term cleric. Cleric means priest. Gandalf is not a priest; he's a divinity. The fact that a divinity can do things a priest can also do does not make the divinity into a priest.

I'm not disagreeing with the thrust of your argument here, necessarilly, but cleric can and does mean more than simply priest. And I know you know all of this, Fusangite, but I thought it was worth saying.

All priests are clerics, not all clerics are priests. At least in terms of semantics, I have no idea what sort of murky waters you move into when you really begin to discuss it in terms of fantasy literature or in terms of just being literate. Technically I think it just means you have to have some sort of holy order so in a broader sense you could interpret that as sanctioned by divine authority, but it's problematic either way. Mind you, cleric=priest would probably be true if a number of religions hadn't evolved that distinguished priests within their clergy as different from any number of other 'dedicated' individuals.

Honestly, I'd love to see a system where clerics could produce their spells in some sort of easilly portable form that other players could activate. They dissapear when the cleric refreshed his or her spells and he would have to spend the healing spells ahead of time to make them useful.

I don't see too much of a problem with it balance wise since the cleric has just spent a lot of potentially wasted spell energy in order to give the party additional convenience, it makes the cleric slightly sexier - though more skill would be what would do it for me, and it fits with all the little tokens of blessing that everyone with any sort of religion or metaphysical concern has always carried with them since the dawn of time.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

Pagan parents, right? Or are they just that ignorant?

They might just dislike fantasy for any number of reasons ala King of the Hill. Or they might just not like Lewis.

Talking Beavers has always seemed mighty suspect to me.

 

[Gez]

Jack Vance has a number of Christian priests as mostly bad guys in Lyonesse.

There's only one, he's more a tartuffe than a priest, and if anything in D&D, he would be a rogue. He doesn't cast any spell or turn any undead, but he weasels his way into King Casmir's court, flirt with Queen Solace, tries to abuse of Princess Suldrun, and provoke all sorts of troubles.

He can be considered an adventurer, in the real world meaning of the word as somebody who tries to achieve a position of power through guile in a foreign land, but not in the D&D meaning of people fighting monsters and saving worlds.

A few other Christians are alluded too -- but they're not bad guys, and are just background details, they're never seen in the story.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

I like clerics fine. I've played a fairly good amount of them. I try to flesh out the relationship between the character andhis/her deity of choice. I find that this is easy to do on my part due to how religious I feel. Normally, I tend to focus on advancing the character to obtaining any prereqs that may be necessary to advance in a PrC that is specific to his/her deity.

 

[Ravellion]

The funny thing is that I am an unbudging atheist, and I love playing clerics, and usually make them really devout.

Just swap one philosophy for the other

Rav

 

[Gentlegamer]

There's only one, he's more a tartuffe than a priest, and if anything in D&D, he would be a rogue.

I haven't read those workds of Vance, but describing this character as a "Tartuffe" gives me a perfect picture of him! Well done!

 

[Darth K'Trava]

Honestly, I'd love to see a system where clerics could produce their spells in some sort of easilly portable form that other players could activate. They dissapear when the cleric refreshed his or her spells and he would have to spend the healing spells ahead of time to make them useful.

Are you basically talking about imbuing others with the temporary ability to cast spells of their own? There's a way for a cleric to "spread his spells around" with the spell Imbue With Spell Ability. I'm not sure if this is what you're alluding to or not.... if not, could you clarify?

 

[woodelf]

They might just dislike fantasy for any number of reasons ala King of the Hill. Or they might just not like Lewis.

Talking Beavers has always seemed mighty suspect to me.

Oh, Narnia. That surprises me less. I was thinking someone who didn't want their kids to read CS Lewis, period. I mean, i know he's not perfectly in line with all sects of Xianity, but i thought he was one of the safer ones.

 

[Steve Jung]

Honestly, I'd love to see a system where clerics could produce their spells in some sort of easilly portable form that other players could activate.

Aren't they called potions?

I guess some people see clerics as reactive characters, not active. Their role is patching up those who do stuff..