The Redundancy of Perception

[Dr_Ruminahui]

A fair point - though, IMHO, perception/intuition rolls tend to occur when the players ask "can I see x?", which I may have had no reason to trigger yet (or may not even have thought of).

For example, players go into the room, expecting a bad guy. Bad guy isn't there. Player says "I look for a secret door behind the curtain" - I give him a roll (perhaps at a negative, as its actually behind the book shelf) - if he rolls high enough, he notices something odd about the bookshelf while looking behind the curtain, while his passive might be high enough to have him find the secret door regardless of his roll.

However, it may more come down to my DM style - I don't tend to check passive results unless the plot requires it, or the players ask. So, by at least giving them their pssive on a low roll, I'm not penalising them for being curious about their environment.

 

[Nytmare]

Do you allow multiple re-rolls when using Perception to search or look for possible hidden foes?

I let them roll once. If they want to roll again, I make them take 20.

 

[Thanee]

I think there are three basic options when it comes to Perception (exemplified).

1) Ambush! Those who make the check are not surprised; others are. Each roll has a result for the individual character.

2) Trap! If the one walking into it makes the check, the trap can be avoided. If not, but someone else makes the check (might be more difficult due to higher distance), there might be a chance to warn the one walking into it in time (maybe another roll? or a bonus to defense?).

3) Hidden Door! If someone notices, the information can easily be shared. Anyone making the roll is as good as everyone making it.

Bye
Thanee

 

[RigaMortus2]

A fair point - though, IMHO, perception/intuition rolls tend to occur when the players ask "can I see x?", which I may have had no reason to trigger yet (or may not even have thought of).

For example, players go into the room, expecting a bad guy. Bad guy isn't there. Player says "I look for a secret door behind the curtain" - I give him a roll (perhaps at a negative, as its actually behind the book shelf) - if he rolls high enough, he notices something odd about the bookshelf while looking behind the curtain, while his passive might be high enough to have him find the secret door regardless of his roll.

However, it may more come down to my DM style - I don't tend to check passive results unless the plot requires it, or the players ask. So, by at least giving them their pssive on a low roll, I'm not penalising them for being curious about their environment.

I like the idea behind Passives, but I'm not used to incorporating them that much. I get strange looks from my players when they make a poor Perception check that their passive Perception would otherwise have sufficed.

If I can remember to do so, I think I will have to start taking down their passive perceptions (I should have been doing this all along) and if someone has a high enough PP, I'll just let them automatically see traps and hidden foes or hidden doors. Of course, most of these things that are hidden are 20+ skill checks, so unless they are higher level or took a skill focus in perception, they shouldn't come in to play too often. I'm DM after all, so I guess I could make "important" things 25+ to force a roll...

 

[Nytmare]

I like the idea behind Passives, but I'm not used to incorporating them that much. I get strange looks from my players when they make a poor Perception check that their passive Perception would otherwise have sufficed.

I frequently allow characters to make rolls and silently bottom their rolls out at their passive score. Just to add that ounce of activity.

 

[mneme]

In general, I think you're better off with perception having -someone- make a roll -- except in situations where rolling just doesn't matter (no time element; PCs know there's something worth searching for).

So if there's a secret door, sure, let 'em roll; there's a static difficulty. If they think there's a secret door and are willing to take 10 or 20, then they'll find it even with bad rolls.

OTOH, if someone is using stealth, they don't get to roll; the roll is the Stealth check vs their passives unless they get a hint something's up and start making active Perception checks every round.