D&D General The Renewing Charm of the Old School Play Experience

[Snarf Zagyg]

Sadly, I never played B/X, I was around at the time, but didn't get into the game until 1e (aside from all the Endless Quest books)

Why not now?

I remember that back in the day, there was a common and unfortunate misconception that Basic was just "beginners" AD&D, when it was really its own really cool system.

If you can't find it, maybe look at one of the clones?

D&D Retroclones

Here is an overview over all the retroclones and OSR systems based on the various editions of D&D as well as other RPGs that are based in D&D in one way or the other. A thank you goes to the RPG.net...

taxidermicowlbear.weebly.com

If you're looking at clones, though, avoid Holmes clones- they are good, but they are really OD&D clones, not B/X clones.

 

[Nebulous]

Why not now?

I remember that back in the day, there was a common and unfortunate misconception that Basic was just "beginners" AD&D, when it was really its own really cool system.

If you can't find it, maybe look at one of the clones?

D&D Retroclones

Here is an overview over all the retroclones and OSR systems based on the various editions of D&D as well as other RPGs that are based in D&D in one way or the other. A thank you goes to the RPG.net...

taxidermicowlbear.weebly.com

If you're looking at clones, though, avoid Holmes clones- they are good, but they are really OD&D clones, not B/X clones.

That's exactly what I thought, that the boxed DnD sets were for "kids" and I was effing 13 and going to play the big boy hardback game.

I have the DnD Cyclopedia book in pdf, is that the B/X?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

That's exactly what I thought, that the boxed DnD sets were for "kids" and I was effing 13 and going to play the big boy hardback game.

I have the DnD Cyclopedia book in pdf, is that the B/X?

It is, kind of. If I remember correctly, it's slightly complicated. B/X was the original Moldvay/Cook stuff.

The Rules Cyclopedia is the codification of the BECMI (red box) stuff with a few extra things put in. It's more than sufficient!

 

[Nebulous]

It is, kind of. If I remember correctly, it's slightly complicated. B/X was the original Moldvay/Cook stuff.

The Rules Cyclopedia is the codification of the BECMI (red box) stuff with a few extra things put in. It's more than sufficient!

Good. I have browsed through the Cyclopedia pdf several times and been impressed by how it covers EVERYTHING you could want.

 

[werecorpse]

To be clear, I was responding to make sure that I disagreed with the following two assertions, which I bolded so that you would not misunderstand what I was saying.

1. We rarely ignored the rules

2. But as I say I think there is a difference between actual 1e and what is classed as an OSR style game.

I think that both of these statements are incorrect, and orthogonal to what you are saying now. I think I went through, in detail, the ways in which that game ignored the rules (you didn't even address the ring of six actions, for example). You yourself characterized it as a "Monty Haul" game. As you are aware, Monty Haul was rubbished in the very beginning of the game by the recurring column in Dragon Magazine (h/t Jim Ward).

Simply put, if you ignore a lot of rules, sure, you end up with the most powerful weapon/magic item combo in the game, and six actions a round (which gives, what, 12 attacks for a fighter?), and DM fudging, and flying around on artifacts with no drawbacks, and killing gods. This happened a lot, especially with younger gamers (the power-trip model), and there's nothing wrong with that, if that's your fun. But it's the same as someone saying, "Yeah, I play 5e, and it I go through a character almost every session, and I rarely even get to 3rd level .... it's just a real meatgrinder." It's easily possible to change and tweak the rules to make that happen, but that's not really 5e as it is presented.

Which leads to the two comments. Yes, you must have been ignoring a lot of the rule. Which is fine- I'm not saying you're a bad person, just disagreeing with your own assessment.

But that leads to the second massive disagreement. 1e is OSR-style. In fact, OD&D, 1e, and B/X are largely interchangeable, and using B1 or B2 (written for Holmes) in a B/X or 1e setting presents no real issues, and were often used in those settings.

All of which leads to this- yes, OD&D and 1e were not "low magic" in terms of items. That's why the Paladin stricture of ten items matters! But it's also because the old rules were "low magic" in terms of character abilities- no "always on" cantrips. Fewer spells per day (recollecting all the MU spells, for example, took significant time). Fewer abilities in general for your class. Your magic items were your abilities and feats.

The other factor that I don't disagree with is that it was very, very weird. It had not yet stultified into what we think of as standard D&D tropes. You could adventure in Wonderland. You could hop to Gamma World. You would take a character from one campaign to another. You had sanctioned adventures in space ships. You had Cthulhu.

It was weird, and it was awesome.

We did sometimes ignore the rules, the weapons vs armour table never got a look in, but what apart from the flying throne of the gods in the examples I gave? I answered all your accusations that we ignored the rules including saying where we found the Ring. So you saying we did with those examples is wrong. Im not saying you are a bad person.

monty haul was Indeed rubbished, but it’s a spectrum. The loot in published TSR and other modules was extensive. I think G1 was one of the earliest published modules And it is loaded, so is the rest if the giant series. That amount of treasure would probably be considered monty hall by today’s standards.

the point I was trying to make is that the suggestion that AD&D was necessarily low magic is not how I remembered it. Not just from homebrew stuff but based on the published modules at the time. Sure no cantrips but not what I would call low magic in a world sense. Really cantrips just meant instead of your low level magic user throwing 3 darts a round he now fires a firebolt. A character who went through a bunch of official AD&D and D&D TSR modules stated as being level appropriate from level 1-10 could easily end up outfitted like a Christmas tree. That was RAW. That wasnt me ignoring lots of rules.

now whether or not that is how the OSR games play I don’t know - but I do know how many of the actual OS games played, back before there was a R.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

monty haul was Indeed rubbished, but it’s a spectrum. The loot in published TSR and other modules was extensive. I think G1 was one of the earliest published modules And it is loaded, so is the rest if the giant series. That amount of treasure would probably be considered monty hall by today’s standards.

Please stop. Of course it was "extensive" by today's standards, and I already explained why.

But it wasn't like you are trying to assert with Artifacts and Relics with no ill effects dangling from the trees. Here, let's look! Following is a list of every single magic item in G1 that you can get, assuming you defeat everything and find them all:
Potions: Extra-healing, Hill Giant Control, Healing, Poison, Giant Strength, Delusion, Water Breathing x4, Poison
Armor/Shields: +3 Shield
Weapons: 5 Javelins of Lightning, War Hammer +2, Sword +2 (+4 v. Giants), Battle Axe +3, 11 Magic Arrows +2, 2 Flame Brands (!!!!)
Misc.: Scarab of Insanity

Now, notice that this is supposed to be for levels 9 and up (the collection says 8-12 but the included tournament PCs are all levels 9-14). That's name level. There are no "artifacts." There are no rings of wishes. There are no items that provide a bonus above 3 (except for specialized cases). The majority of items are consumables (both potions, and weapons like javelins and arrows). There are numerous cursed items. The one notable thing is probably the over-abundance of magic swords, which, if the party is ninth level, shouldn't be that big of a deal (Cue up the refrain of "Oh, another +1 long sword?").

Monty Haul wasn't just about getting a lot of potions; it was about Rings of Wishes and Artifacts with no side effects and jaunting off to kill Vecna and Kas and Satan.

So, if you want to insist that the campaign you played with the Flying Throne of the Gods and the Ring of Six Bonus Actions was how everyone played, knock yourself out.

I made my point.

 

[atanakar]

I DM my D&D 5e campaigns the exact same way I did 1e. 5e is very easy to customize. For a Basic feel use the Basic 5e pdf. Use the Slow Healing Rule of the DMG and crank up the difficulty level of the encounters. Finally, make gonzo mega-dungeon crawls with traps, puzzles and fill it with monsters, factions, cults and BBEBs.

I did try Basic Moldvay in 2019 because of nostalgia. I remembered why I left that edition behind.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I DM my D&D 5e campaigns the exact same way I did 1e. 5e is very easy to customize. For a Basic feel use the Basic 5e pdf. Use the Slow Healing Rule of the DMG and crank up the difficulty level of the encounters. Finally, make gonzo mega-dungeon crawls with traps, puzzles and fill it with monsters, factions, cults and BBEBs.

You can approximate it. Slow healing makes a big difference. Changing the rules for short rest and long rest (to a day and a week, respectively) also makes a huge difference.

You can keep tweaking it and altering it. You can even run the old modules. But you'll never quite get there, just because, for example, it lacks certain rules with regard to effects, traps, level drain, and so on.

At a certain point, you end up tweaking it so much you might as well play the real thing. Or play 5e.

I did try Basic Moldvay in 2019 because of nostalgia. I remembered why I left that edition behind.

That's a shame. It's not for everyone, I guess.

 

[jasper]

Back in 1E, when I was prepping any module I kept an pencil handy. About every third permanent magic item I struck through. Depending on the group they room broom/hovered/sucked up anything they could fit into their bag of holding/portable holes/ etc. They also made sure to find every secret room. In fact Temple of Elemental Evil was the only dungeon where a few rooms were skipped. All the other non city state modules were cleared out. As in the Home and Gardening tv shows various this house or that house shows, would just need to send in a cleaning crew to take out the dead, take out the trash, and slap a new coat of paint on the walls.
Drew Scott, " We add two franklin stoves, change the colour to egg shell white. And this steading is a steal at 650,000 GP."

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Back in 1E, when I was prepping any module I kept an pencil handy. About every third permanent magic item I struck through. Depending on the group they room broom/hovered/sucked up anything they could fit into their bag of holding/portable holes/ etc. They also made sure to find every secret room. In fact Temple of Elemental Evil was the only dungeon where a few rooms were skipped. All the other non city state modules were cleared out. As in the Home and Gardening tv shows various this house or that house shows, would just need to send in a cleaning crew to take out the dead, take out the trash, and slap a new coat of paint on the walls.
Drew Scott, " We add two franklin stoves, change the colour to egg shell white. And this steading is a steal at 650,000 GP."

Heh. I'm surprised that the party wasn't selling them. The thing that most people forget about the abundance of magic items in OD&D/1e is fourfold:

A. You character classes didn't have abilities; the magic items were the abilities. The main way you differentiated between two 8th level fighters (say) was through what they had accumulated and were using.

B. The majority of items were consumables (potions, scrolls, etc.) and even weapons were consumables (arrows, javelins).

C. Every module had a large number of cursed items. So there was always risk with the magic.

D. Finally, there was a low power curve (call it the curse of the +1 long sword). Most of the items were redudant; quick, what published pre-85 module had a Holy Avenger you could find? It's a trap question, because you couldn't. IIRC, one of the Wonderland modules had a Vorpal Sword (sniker snack), and White Plume was justly famous for the three weapons, but it's not like there was Plate of Etherealness, Artifacts, or +5 items in modules.

And, of course, all those shinies that they got? One good fireball, or a dragon ... and they would all be gone. Item saving throws were a terror.