JustKim
First Post
In order to anticipate questions and problems running KotS with my regular gaming group I've started a test run with me as the DM and one other person playing all the characters. So far we've done the Winterhaven intro and the first two combats: On the Road and A1. Having read Crothian's review of KotS before the test run I did not agree with his criticisms of too many errors and poor organization, but when we actually sat down to play I was surprised at how many walls we hit. I've marked the notable ones off for anyone bored with the wall of context.
We started with the first encounter, using the battlemat and Fiery Dragon's counters. The player didn't think to sneak and there was no mention in the encounter text of a surprise round, so we just rolled initiative and dove right in. I ignored the tactics section and let the dragonshields act before the minions in order to form a strong front line. Right away we saw that the dragonshields were a significant threat to a 1st level party, and hit our first snag. I couldn't figure out what the effect of the dragonshields' mark was, since it was not described in the encounter text and I couldn't find it anywhere I looked. I found it later in the DM's book conditions summary, which certainly makes sense, but for the first encounter I didn't mark at all.
Most of the player's attacks were misses- yep, it was 1st level alright. Although she had abilities that have effects even when they miss, she was not using them most of the time, so progress was very slow. Although she was aware of healing surges, they were not used except for the dwarf's Dwarven Resilience (very powerful!) and healing powers that triggered them. PCs' daily powers and action points were all reserved, and I consistantly failed to use Dragonshield Tactics, so we didn't play the encounter to the fullest.
While the fighter and paladin held the front line, we found some more problems.
When the player figured out which counters represented the minions she mostly ignored them until she could catch 3 in the wizard's Scorching Burst. The dragonshields' fire resistance made them essentially immune to that attack and she didn't use it again. Most of the time she used the wizard's Magic Missile, which was very effective because of the enemy's low Reflex defense and extreme range of the entire battlemat. Since the kobold slinger was outgunned by the wizard he took cover behind a boulder, and as we were looking at cover we wondered:
The rogue only began to contribute to the fight near the end, and I was surprised to see that sliding is not hindered by difficult terrain- though getting back certainly is. It seems like a very effective tactic to shift an enemy into difficult terrain. What seemed to be a very battlemat-oriented class before seems all the more with this realization. Keeping track of where everyone is relative to everyone else without miniatures and battlemats is WotC politely clearing its collective throat and proffering its tactile products. Keeping track of what terrain is difficult, for how far, and where it is in relation to the moving battle is WotC rolling up a miniature-filled battlemat and smacking rogue players over the head with it. But I digress.
Near the end of the fight the cleric ran out of healing and the paladin resorted to using Lay on Hands.
When the first battle finally ended it had taken 1.5 - 2 hours. Some of this was learning the rules but I also expect that 4E combats take longer due to the ebb and flow and sheer quantity of hit points.
We didn't dedicate a lot of time to roleplaying the Winterhaven experience, though I feel it's a strong part of the adventure and intend to flesh it out when I run it for real. My player went straight to the inn and complained, in a unified 5-PC voice, about the kobold attack. I rolled some dice and decided Lord Padraig was not in the inn at that moment, so she made plans to visit him later. We had fun with Eilian the Old and his conclusion-jumping dialog. Thair Coalstriker also seems like a fun character but her time in Winterhaven was essentially a stop at the inn, a visit to Lord Padraig's manor and then a trek into the wilderness. It's just as well she didn't pause to shop because there is no information on items or prices at all.
Being a seasoned veteran of 1st level adventures my player scoffed at the 100 gold Lord Padraig offered. She wanted to negotiate for more, but there are no guidelines for this and no stats for Padraig beyond him being a 3rd level warlord. I decided to make it a skill challenge involving Diplomacy, Dungeoneering and Thievery with a 4 success/2 failure threshold. I thought this would be an easy task but she failed it. Lord Padraig was discouraged by the PCs' greed and became glum. I think the resolution was more concrete using a challenge rather than a single Diplomacy check or an opposed roll, because the results could be seen unfolding. It seems to encourage more roleplaying in social encounters, especially, which is great.
After this we moved straight into the second combat, A1. This is another ambush, but this time I was introduced to the surprise round. I had to wonder why the first combat did not call for a surprise round when it was clearly an ambush. With two rounds of action before the PCs, the dragonshields reached them very quickly and closed around the lead PC, which arose another question:
For A1 I started actively using the dragonshields' Dragonshield Tactics ability, and realized two things. First, keeping track of which dragonshield has marked which PC when the dragonshields can and do shift multiple times a round is a veritable shell game. Second, it's extremely potent for preventing flanking and pursuing opportunity attacks.
Although the encounter is level 2, 4 out of 5 enemies present are above the PCs' level. Things were very ugly for a while and the cleric ran out of healing powers before any enemies were defeated. Once the player started using standard action healing surges, things did turn around, but several of the PCs hovered in the single digit hit points for much of the fight. The paladin was dropped multiple times, only to be resuscitated by the cleric's Sacred Flame temporary hit points. This happened for 3 rounds straight and it was positively goofy.
The battle was very difficult. The player used all her daily and encounter powers that could be used, and introduced us to a couple more problems.
The PCs were just barely hanging on when the dragonshields were bloodied, and the wizard broke out the sleep spell so they could be finished one at a time. Unfortunately the spell only put one kobold to sleep, and the first hit afterward did not kill it.
When the last dragonshield hit the dirt we called it for the night. I'm interested to try the rest of the encounters, because I'm anticipating a TPK or three. A3 is encounter level 6..
We started with the first encounter, using the battlemat and Fiery Dragon's counters. The player didn't think to sneak and there was no mention in the encounter text of a surprise round, so we just rolled initiative and dove right in. I ignored the tactics section and let the dragonshields act before the minions in order to form a strong front line. Right away we saw that the dragonshields were a significant threat to a 1st level party, and hit our first snag. I couldn't figure out what the effect of the dragonshields' mark was, since it was not described in the encounter text and I couldn't find it anywhere I looked. I found it later in the DM's book conditions summary, which certainly makes sense, but for the first encounter I didn't mark at all.
Most of the player's attacks were misses- yep, it was 1st level alright. Although she had abilities that have effects even when they miss, she was not using them most of the time, so progress was very slow. Although she was aware of healing surges, they were not used except for the dwarf's Dwarven Resilience (very powerful!) and healing powers that triggered them. PCs' daily powers and action points were all reserved, and I consistantly failed to use Dragonshield Tactics, so we didn't play the encounter to the fullest.
While the fighter and paladin held the front line, we found some more problems.
- The fighter has a feat that adds +1 damage and notes that it's already included in the stat block. But his melee damage bonus is +3, the same as his Strength bonus. I ruled this was wrong and bumped the bonus up to +4.
- When do these temporary hit points fade away? Does the rule that max hit points cannot be exceeded apply to temporary hit points? Are temporary hit points sufficient to take a creature out of bloodied status? I ruled a) at the end of the encounter, b) no, and c) yes.
When the player figured out which counters represented the minions she mostly ignored them until she could catch 3 in the wizard's Scorching Burst. The dragonshields' fire resistance made them essentially immune to that attack and she didn't use it again. Most of the time she used the wizard's Magic Missile, which was very effective because of the enemy's low Reflex defense and extreme range of the entire battlemat. Since the kobold slinger was outgunned by the wizard he took cover behind a boulder, and as we were looking at cover we wondered:
- Does the foliage that grants cover against attacks made from or into it also grant cover against attacks made through it? I ruled yes, it seemed obvious, though technically omitted.
- Do allies or enemies grant cover against ranged attacks? I couldn't find anything that said so, so I hesitantly ruled that combatants don't grant cover.
- What kind of action is bluffing in combat? Does it supplement speech, a free action, or is it more involved? How many creatures can be affected by a bluff or intimidate check in a combat situation? I ruled that the bluff check supplemented the action of casting Ghost Sound, but it really seemed like a temporary fix.
The rogue only began to contribute to the fight near the end, and I was surprised to see that sliding is not hindered by difficult terrain- though getting back certainly is. It seems like a very effective tactic to shift an enemy into difficult terrain. What seemed to be a very battlemat-oriented class before seems all the more with this realization. Keeping track of where everyone is relative to everyone else without miniatures and battlemats is WotC politely clearing its collective throat and proffering its tactile products. Keeping track of what terrain is difficult, for how far, and where it is in relation to the moving battle is WotC rolling up a miniature-filled battlemat and smacking rogue players over the head with it. But I digress.
Near the end of the fight the cleric ran out of healing and the paladin resorted to using Lay on Hands.
- Lay on Hands is listed as an At-Will power but it says in the text that it's usable once per day. Wouldn't this make it a Daily power by definition? I ruled it is usable once per day, but I found this one pretty bizarre.
When the first battle finally ended it had taken 1.5 - 2 hours. Some of this was learning the rules but I also expect that 4E combats take longer due to the ebb and flow and sheer quantity of hit points.
We didn't dedicate a lot of time to roleplaying the Winterhaven experience, though I feel it's a strong part of the adventure and intend to flesh it out when I run it for real. My player went straight to the inn and complained, in a unified 5-PC voice, about the kobold attack. I rolled some dice and decided Lord Padraig was not in the inn at that moment, so she made plans to visit him later. We had fun with Eilian the Old and his conclusion-jumping dialog. Thair Coalstriker also seems like a fun character but her time in Winterhaven was essentially a stop at the inn, a visit to Lord Padraig's manor and then a trek into the wilderness. It's just as well she didn't pause to shop because there is no information on items or prices at all.
Being a seasoned veteran of 1st level adventures my player scoffed at the 100 gold Lord Padraig offered. She wanted to negotiate for more, but there are no guidelines for this and no stats for Padraig beyond him being a 3rd level warlord. I decided to make it a skill challenge involving Diplomacy, Dungeoneering and Thievery with a 4 success/2 failure threshold. I thought this would be an easy task but she failed it. Lord Padraig was discouraged by the PCs' greed and became glum. I think the resolution was more concrete using a challenge rather than a single Diplomacy check or an opposed roll, because the results could be seen unfolding. It seems to encourage more roleplaying in social encounters, especially, which is great.
After this we moved straight into the second combat, A1. This is another ambush, but this time I was introduced to the surprise round. I had to wonder why the first combat did not call for a surprise round when it was clearly an ambush. With two rounds of action before the PCs, the dragonshields reached them very quickly and closed around the lead PC, which arose another question:
- Can a creature who hasn't acted yet in a round make an opportunity attack? I ruled no at the time, but after reading the rogue's First Strike class ability I'm convinced there is no more flatfootedness in the rules, and my mind changed.
For A1 I started actively using the dragonshields' Dragonshield Tactics ability, and realized two things. First, keeping track of which dragonshield has marked which PC when the dragonshields can and do shift multiple times a round is a veritable shell game. Second, it's extremely potent for preventing flanking and pursuing opportunity attacks.
Although the encounter is level 2, 4 out of 5 enemies present are above the PCs' level. Things were very ugly for a while and the cleric ran out of healing powers before any enemies were defeated. Once the player started using standard action healing surges, things did turn around, but several of the PCs hovered in the single digit hit points for much of the fight. The paladin was dropped multiple times, only to be resuscitated by the cleric's Sacred Flame temporary hit points. This happened for 3 rounds straight and it was positively goofy.
The battle was very difficult. The player used all her daily and encounter powers that could be used, and introduced us to a couple more problems.
- The paladin's feat Healing Hands says it adds your Charisma modifier to healing from Lay on Hands, and that the +3 is already included. Lay on Hands does not mention a modifier at all, so I added the +3 to it.
- Can a creature take an opportunity attack while prone? I ruled it can, since the condition summary lists a penalty for making attacks while prone.
The PCs were just barely hanging on when the dragonshields were bloodied, and the wizard broke out the sleep spell so they could be finished one at a time. Unfortunately the spell only put one kobold to sleep, and the first hit afterward did not kill it.
- Does damaging a creature affected by the sleep spell wake it? I ruled it does, but this makes a bad spell even worse.
When the last dragonshield hit the dirt we called it for the night. I'm interested to try the rest of the encounters, because I'm anticipating a TPK or three. A3 is encounter level 6..
