The rocky experience of a KotS test run (spoilers)

[tafkamhokie]

re. the ghost sound/bluff check

I think a previous poster was correct that skills, and especially skill challenges, are usually for out of combat applications.

In this case, I would have gone for a Cha attack vs. Will defense, probably with a circumstance bonus of about +2 or +3 for augmenting the bluff with a ghost sound. I think the Stat X vs. Defense Y is the standard mechanic for trying something goofy, then you just adjudicate the results using common sense.

re. two character in the same square

The 3e rule was that two non-prone characters could not normally occupy the same square. For them to do it, they both would have to be squeezing...which is half-movement speed and denied your Dex bonus to AC. I simple adaptation would be for both characters occupying the same square to give up combat advantage to all opponents.

re. encounter powers outside of combat

Basically the mechanic for an encounter power is it recharges after 5 minutes of rest. So an eladrin should be able to teleport every five minutes or so while outside of combat, provided they get a rest in between each one.

You would have to think most reasonably sophisticated jails would have cold iron shackles (or something similar) that an eladrin could not teleport out of.

 

[JustKim]

re. the ghost sound/bluff check

I think a previous poster was correct that skills, and especially skill challenges, are usually for out of combat applications.

In this case, I would have gone for a Cha attack vs. Will defense, probably with a circumstance bonus of about +2 or +3 for augmenting the bluff with a ghost sound. I think the Stat X vs. Defense Y is the standard mechanic for trying something goofy, then you just adjudicate the results using common sense.

That's an interesting take on it. I don't agree that skills are for out of combat, but the Charisma attack against Will defense does sound like a better mechanic than the opposed Bluff vs. Insight roll.

 

[Phoenix8008]

I don't have anything specific to add as most things have already been covered well by others. I've gotta say though that I'm learning so much in reading these threads about peoples experiences and rules questions, it will make it go much smoother for me when I DM a group through this adventure after I get the Core books in a couple weeks. So thanks to the OP and all the others asking and answering questions in these threads for helping the rest of us get a leg up later on!

 

[Phoenix8008]

One thing I have noticed in rereading the Fighter pregen is that he should be pretty powerful against the shifty kobolds. With their powers letting them shift around so much, it should constantly trigger his Combat Challenge to let him take a free basic attack at the marked kobold trying to shift. They will either hold still or get tagged extra each round.

 

[PeterWeller]

I think a previous poster was correct that skills, and especially skill challenges, are usually for out of combat applications.

I wouldn't be so sure. The very first encounter calls out the climb DCs for the boulders and rocky outcropping.

I ruled bluff v will in a similar situation, where the wizard wanted to use ghost sound to mimic the sound of a cavalry horn.

 

[Vaeron]

Part of the problem with the paladin versus fighter here is that the paladin is a combat as opposed to a healing oriented paladin. His strength is 18 (+4) but his wisdom is only 12 (+1). So he can definitely bring the damage, but he can't Lay on Hands anywhere near as often as a more typical paladin build might.

If you'd run the adventure using the halfling paladin instead of the dragonborn, I suspect the appraisal would be much different. I guess it goes to show that the characters WON'T all be carbon copies of each other, as some of us had been fearing.

 

[Bolongo]

re. encounter powers outside of combat

Basically the mechanic for an encounter power is it recharges after 5 minutes of rest. So an eladrin should be able to teleport every five minutes or so while outside of combat, provided they get a rest in between each one.

I predict that a strict application of this rule for all powers will lead to the following player behaviour:
After an encounter the party will apply any remaining uses of Healing Word or Inspiring Word, then rest 5 minutes, use those powers again, rest another 5 minutes etc. Nobody will want to use an unmodified healing surge.
For simplicity I'll probably end up telling my players "If you have a Cleric or Warlord in the party, any healing surges you use while resting get +1d6". Provides another incentive for someone to play those classes, too.

 

[hennebeck]

Good call, but remember, you can't have a tea party in the middle of a dungeon.
Unless it is a safe and secure room, 5 minutes might be all the time they get to rest.
And then they have combat which means they can't use the power during that encounter.

 

[JustKim]

We just finished encounter A2. Same setup, I play the monsters and one player plays all the PCs. I can see the point raised earlier that one person might not play 5 PCs to the fullest, but I'm not convinced it's that much more demanding than a 2 player game of DDM or Descent. When I run the adventure with my regular gaming group the core books will be out and they'll be playing PCs of their own design- this test run is mostly to give me an idea of the things I'll need to anticipate and the difficulty of the adventure.

A2 starts with the PCs approaching the kobold camp. The player elected to use stealth and creep through the trees. The low stealth DC enabled the rogue, wizard, and fighter to sneak by the kobold camp, but they also did not notice it. The first PC to notice the kobolds was also the one to bomb the stealth check, and when initiative was rolled the party was split into two groups. When the kobolds made themselves known the hidden fighter and wizard sprang from the trees to attack, but the rogue remained hidden.

• Does stealth reduce movement? I couldn't find a reference under movement or the stealth skill, so I ruled it does not.

I followed the tactics section this time, keeping the dragonshield on the magic circle even when he had been marked by the paladin and piling all the minions around him. The paladin became the target of 10 javelins, but his 22 AC due to cover protected him from all but one. A character with lower AC might have been dropped immediately.

Once the PCs moved into the camp I noticed that the area features seems to be missing an entry.

• The dry wood and rocks between the trees and the river is marked with a difficult terrain symbol, but it isn't listed in the encounter. I ruled it was difficult terrtain that did not provide cover.

The kobold minions were absolutely massacred by the wizard's Scorching Burst. 7 out of 10 were killed. The suggested tactics worked against them by dogpiling them on the magic circle.

Also working against the kobolds was the difficult terrain, which prevented them from making good use of their shift powers. This battle went much more in the PCs' favor, which suggests to me that the number of minions in an encounter will not matter much. 5 regular kobolds was a real challenge, 3 regular kobolds and 10 minions was not.

While the dragonshield was being swarmed the rogue continued sneaking through the trees to get to the kobold slinger. I asked the player to roll stealth again since conditions had changed, and she easily retained stealth. When she reached the kobold slinger the rogue rolled a critical hit, which brought up a couple more questions.

• Does a rogue attacking from stealth gain a combat advantage? Although the surprised condition doesn't seem to apply, I ruled yes because the combat advantage description states "This usually occurs when the defender is [...] caught off guard."
• Is sneak attack damage maximized by a critical hit? The language for critical hits says that it maximizes attack damage, not weapon damage, so I ruled that it does.

As a result the kobold slinger was killed in one hit.

All told, the encounter really did not take very long, roughly half an hour. I hope that familiarity with the rules will continue to keep combat time low, because I don't like the action to take a long time and this was one of my biggest fears about converting to 4E.

When we concluded the encounter the PCs took a short rest and spent a healing surge or two to regain full health. All of the PCs' daily powers and action points are still available for the big fight in A3, so I'm starting to think it is doable. We'll find out later this evening.

 

[skipdog172]

I predict that a strict application of this rule for all powers will lead to the following player behaviour:
After an encounter the party will apply any remaining uses of Healing Word or Inspiring Word, then rest 5 minutes, use those powers again, rest another 5 minutes etc. Nobody will want to use an unmodified healing surge.
For simplicity I'll probably end up telling my players "If you have a Cleric or Warlord in the party, any healing surges you use while resting get +1d6". Provides another incentive for someone to play those classes, too.

That's a good idea!