The rocky experience of a KotS test run (spoilers)

[Markn]

If the sequence is -- Player moves three, Dragonshield shifts away one square, Player continues by moving one more squre to stay within range of the Dragonshield -- the Dragonshield ability seems seriously gimped.

I think it makes more sense that the interupt does not occur until you say your move action is done and that you are going to take your next action or end your turn. Then the Dragonshield shifts forcing you to take another action to stay close or let it go. The action that triggers the interrupt (moving adjacent) is complete (you did not keep moving), and that then allows the Dragonshield to interrupt the next thing you were going to do (probably attack him).

Using the halfling slinger example, I'd say the action that triggers the interrupt (taking damage) is completed after the hafling has rolled the die, hit and rolled damage. The successive attacks would take place after the interrupt since the game is exception-based (the halfling's three attack action is interrupted by the gnome's special ability as soon as the action that triggers it is complete).

Just my two cents.

Therein lies the conundrum. They are both immediate reactions. Your first ruling with the Dragonshield happens after a completed move ACTION. You second ruling happens after PART of a standard ACTION. I get that the game is exception based, but when and how to apply immediate reactions should be consistent. They should either interrupt during part of an action (when the specific occurance happens but after the specific occurance happens) or they interrupt after the literal action is done in which the circumstances are met to trigger the reaction. There's a fine line.

By the same token, the fact that the Dragonshield can only do this one a round seems kind of gimped to me - unless I am interpretting that wrong.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

I think I might put an extra rounds delay on Irontooths appearance, possibly even two rounds. That ought to make it easier for the party to avoid getting swamped.

 

[Graf]

I'm running a game here on Enworld and they demoloished the first encounter in 2 rounds. It's sounds like OP maybe was missing some key rules...
Slidingshifting is prevented by difficult terrain, for instance.
(Link includes maps and all rolls were rolled on Invisible Castle)

I didn't actually use the dragonshield's mark but people were hitting with 20s so it didn't matter much; and I ruled the fighter's combat superiority as incorrectly affecting all foes, instead of just marked foes, but honestly, it wasn't even a challenge (only the fighter even managed to take damage).

Since a lot of important rules are hidden away later in the book (cover/concealment/LoS/LoE/etc) you really have to read through the whole adventure before running it, or at least page through and read the sidebars.

 

[Graf]

I wonder if it's supposed to be too difficult? Isn't the encounter level 6, optional, and ultimately a sort of trap since that's where the elf tries to misdirect the party?

It seems as if the point of the encounter is not to go chasing after everything that's set down in front of you, but to keep focused on the actual task at hand. Out of three Quest Hooks at the beginning offering bonus XP, how many of them involve wiping out the kobolds? None.

I don't think it's supposed to be a linear adventure. Mearls is old school. It's there if you want it, but you don't have to do it, and probably shouldn't at first level. Just like some of the stuff in KotB, if you remember.

I think this is a good point. Even with all the new bling that 4e characters get you need to develop a much more tactical sensibility. If you just show up and blast stuff that's in front of you you'll go down pretty fast.

He wrote Iron Heroes after all, and was hired by WotC (I'm assuming) partially on that basis.

This is true for DMs as well, but the book goes into a lot of detail about "good tactics".

 

[Korgoth]

I think this is a good point. Even with all the new bling that 4e characters get you need to develop a much more tactical sensibility. If you just show up and blast stuff that's in front of you you'll go down pretty fast.

He wrote Iron Heroes after all, and was hired by WotC (I'm assuming) partially on that basis.

This is true for DMs as well, but the book goes into a lot of detail about "good tactics".

It might be that the difference between glorious success and a flaming TPK in 4th Edition is in tactical mastery (as opposed to 3E, where it was build optimization, or older editions, where it was judicious use of the Sleep spell).

 

[JustKim]

I'm running a game here on Enworld and they demoloished the first encounter in 2 rounds. It's sounds like OP maybe was missing some key rules...
Sliding is prevented by difficult terrain, for instance.

That's not how it works according to the DM's book- on page 11 under Forced Movement, Difficult Terrain: "Forced movement isn't hindered by difficult terrain." You can't shift into difficult terrain, and maybe that's what you meant. If it is, we're on the same page.

 

[ZappoHisbane]

Therein lies the conundrum. They are both immediate reactions. Your first ruling with the Dragonshield happens after a completed move ACTION. You second ruling happens after PART of a standard ACTION. I get that the game is exception based, but when and how to apply immediate reactions should be consistent. They should either interrupt during part of an action (when the specific occurance happens but after the specific occurance happens) or they interrupt after the literal action is done in which the circumstances are met to trigger the reaction. There's a fine line.

The question I have is, how does this ability interact with a charge? IIRC, a charge is a standard action that allows you to move up to your speed and make an attack at the end of the movement. Does the Dragonshield get to shift away before you get to attack?

 

[Markn]

The question I have is, how does this ability interact with a charge? IIRC, a charge is a standard action that allows you to move up to your speed and make an attack at the end of the movement. Does the Dragonshield get to shift away before you get to attack?

That's a good question. If the action has to fully resolve before the shift then the "charger" would get his attack in before the shift happens - I think....

 

[Irda Ranger]

The question I have is, how does this ability interact with a charge? IIRC, a charge is a standard action that allows you to move up to your speed and make an attack at the end of the movement. Does the Dragonshield get to shift away before you get to attack?

"The triggering action is completely resolved before you take your reaction." KotS, p.9

 

[Graf]

Sorry yeah. Meant shifting. OP (I think) meantioned the rogue shifting around and there may be some sort of special thing there but generally shifting is blocked by difficult terrain, at least one Dragonshield died because a player moved in such a way as they couldn't shift out (bc of difficult terrain).