D&D General The Rules Cyclopedia - Unlearning Dnd Preconceptions from a 3e player

[Voadam]

OD&D (White Box) had three alignments (Law, Chaos, Neutrality) and three alignment languages.

The “common tongue” spoken throughout the “continent” is known by most humans. All other creatures and monsters which can speak have their own language, although some (20%) also know the common one. Law, Chaos and Neutrality also have common languages spoken by each respectively. One can attempt to communicate through the common tongue, language particular to a creature class, or one of the divisional languages (law, etc.). While not understanding the language, creatures who speak a divisional tongue will recognize a hostile one and attack. Characters with an Intelligence above 10 may learn additional languages, one language for every point above 10 intelligence factors. Thus, a man with an intelligence level of 15 could speak 7 languages, i.e. the common tongue, his divisional language, and 5 creature languages. Of course, Magic-Users’ spells and some magic items will enable the speaking and understanding of languages.

 

[Marc_C]

To me the most important aspect of RC (and previous editions) is that combat happened in phases*. It was like a war-game and it used side initiative. That is the big difference with WoTC editions in which individual initiative became the norm:

ORDER OF COMBAT
A. Each side rolls for initiative, using Id6.
B. The side that wins the initiative acts first:
1. Morale Check (monsters and non-player characters only)

1. Movement (using speed per round), including Defensive Maneuvers
2. Missile fire combat (additional)
   a. Choose targets
   b. Make Hit Rolls
   c. Roll Damage for hits
3. Magic spells
   a. Choose targets
   b. Make Saving Throws if necessary
   c. Apply results immediately
4. Hand-to-Hand combat
   a. Choose targets
   b. Make Hit Rolls
   c. Roll Damage for hits

C. The side that loses the initiative then completes all the steps given above.
D. The DM handles all retreating, surrender, and other special results.

 

[Reynard]

To me the most important aspect of RC (and previous editions) is that combat happened in phases*. It was like a war-game and it used side initiative. That is the big difference with WoTC editions in which individual initiative became the norm:

ORDER OF COMBAT
A. Each side rolls for initiative, using Id6.
B. The side that wins the initiative acts first:
1. Morale Check (monsters and non-player characters only)

1. Movement (using speed per round), including Defensive Maneuvers
2. Missile fire combat (additional)
   a. Choose targets
   b. Make Hit Rolls
   c. Roll Damage for hits
3. Magic spells
   a. Choose targets
   b. Make Saving Throws if necessary
   c. Apply results immediately
4. Hand-to-Hand combat
   a. Choose targets
   b. Make Hit Rolls
   c. Roll Damage for hits

C. The side that loses the initiative then completes all the steps given above.
D. The DM handles all retreating, surrender, and other special results.

D&D has probably held on to its wargaming roots longer than is either necessary or beneficial. I think D&D would be better off if it embraced things like zoned ranges and more theater of the mind friendly positioning and tactical rules. Especially given how otherwise "narrative" and "story focused" the game has become recently.

That said, since most of my gaming has gone to VTT play, particularly 5E on Fantasy Grounds, there are times when I wish the game was a little more tactically complex.

 

[wingsandsword]

D&D has probably held on to its wargaming roots longer than is either necessary or beneficial. I think D&D would be better off if it embraced things like zoned ranges and more theater of the mind friendly positioning and tactical rules.

At least in my experience, the gaming culture of D&D moved away from miniatures in the 1990's.

In the 90's, I saw AD&D 1e and 2e games being played, and even a few games of RC Basic D&D from different gaming groups. . .and only one session used miniatures, ever, not one game, one session for a special event.

AD&D could be played pretty well without minis, and given the high cost of pewter miniatures, there was a strong financial disincentive for players to use them.

Minis in D&D, at least in my experience, came about in the early 2000's as a combination of two factors.
1. D&D 3e strongly encouraged miniature-based gaming with rules that firmly rewarded miniature-based tactics.
2. Far more affordable options for miniatures. The collectable D&D minis began in 2003, and before that there was Mage Knight, the first collectable mini game (I knew a few gamers who bought Mage Knight minis to use for D&D), and the advent of other plastic minis like the Reaper Bones line, and Dragon Magazine including cardboard tokens in every issue for quite some time after the release of 3e.

By the 2004 or 2005 it seemed like every D&D game was using minis and they were the norm, when they most certainly were not only a few years earlier.

The current emphasis on minis in D&D isn't some vestigial appendage, long held over from its miniatures wargaming roots in the 1970's, but a 21st century addition to the game that was built around more tactically oriented rules and improvements in miniatures production that made minis gaming more financially viable for many gamers.

 

[dave2008]

To me the most important aspect of RC (and previous editions) is that combat happened in phases*. It was like a war-game and it used side initiative. That is the big difference with WoTC editions in which individual initiative became the norm:

ORDER OF COMBAT
A. Each side rolls for initiative, using Id6.
B. The side that wins the initiative acts first:
1. Morale Check (monsters and non-player characters only)

1. Movement (using speed per round), including Defensive Maneuvers
2. Missile fire combat (additional)
   a. Choose targets
   b. Make Hit Rolls
   c. Roll Damage for hits
3. Magic spells
   a. Choose targets
   b. Make Saving Throws if necessary
   c. Apply results immediately
4. Hand-to-Hand combat
   a. Choose targets
   b. Make Hit Rolls
   c. Roll Damage for hits

C. The side that loses the initiative then completes all the steps given above.
D. The DM handles all retreating, surrender, and other special results.

In general I don't mind this, but the order of events always bothered me. I would have melee first, ranged second, and spells last. I could see an argument for bonus action and cantrip spells moving up in the order.

 

[Marc_C]

In general I don't mind this, but the order of events always bothered me. I would have melee first, ranged second, and spells last. I could see an argument for bonus action and cantrip spells moving up in the order.

It stems from wilderness exploration. You can't have melee first when most encounters begin at a random distance determined by a DM dice roll. That distance was measured in yards, not feet.

In dungeons it is similar. Corridors were long and there were lots of random encounters. Missile and spells would need to go first in the initial round(s) of combat until hand-to-hand happened.

 

[Reynard]

The current emphasis on minis in D&D isn't some vestigial appendage, long held over from its miniatures wargaming roots in the 1970's, but a 21st century addition to the game that was built around more tactically oriented rules and improvements in miniatures production that made minis gaming more financially viable for many gamers.

I'm not sure I agree. i think there was a lull during the 80s and 90s because TSR repeatedly failed to compete with Games Workshop, combined with the linear story approach to D&D adventures exemplified by Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms modules. But it was at the heart of the game and it remained present throughout its various editions to one degree or another. 3E merely brought it back to the fore. I do agree that a lot of miniatures options emerged at that time, but I think you have it backwards. 3E re-embracing it's miniatures tactical roots drove a lot of the production of various sorts of miniatures.

 

[dave2008]

It stems from wilderness exploration. You can't have melee first when most encounters begin at a random distance determined by a DM dice roll. That distance was measured in yards, not feet.

In dungeons it is similar. Corridors were long and there were lots of random encounters. Missile and spells would need to go first in the initial round(s) of combat until hand-to-hand happened.

still doesn't make sense to me. I mean if your not in range of your melee attacks, you not going to attack. Now, it you wanted to use that order, until you get in melee range - I would be fine with that.

 

[Marc_C]

still doesn't make sense to me. I mean if your not in range of your melee attacks, you not going to attack. Now, it you wanted to use that order, until you get in melee range - I would be fine with that.

Old school D&D includes bows, crossbows, slings and javelins with very long ranges also measured in yards in wilderness. Fighters are well advised to have their bow ready and switch to sword when the distance is too close for comfort.

 

[Voadam]

still doesn't make sense to me. I mean if your not in range of your melee attacks, you not going to attack. Now, it you wanted to use that order, until you get in melee range - I would be fine with that.

According to the Moldvay Basic Set people using ranged attacks and spells are not in melee, if you were in melee those were not options. People casting spells also could not move.

It basically means those not dancing around in melee resolve their actions before those doing so.