D&D General The Rules Cyclopedia - Unlearning Dnd Preconceptions from a 3e player

[Marc_C]

I'm not sure I agree. i think there was a lull during the 80s and 90s because TSR repeatedly failed to compete with Games Workshop, combined with the linear story approach to D&D adventures exemplified by Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms modules. But it was at the heart of the game and it remained present throughout its various editions to one degree or another. 3E merely brought it back to the fore. I do agree that a lot of miniatures options emerged at that time, but I think you have it backwards. 3E re-embracing it's miniatures tactical roots drove a lot of the production of various sorts of miniatures.

TSR had an agreement with Ral Partha to produce D&D miniatures in the 80s and 90s. I've always played with miniatures of some kind since 1981. (edit) before that they had an agreement with Grenadier and other companies. You can read all about it at this link: http://www.dndlead.com/History.htm

The weird thing about RC and BECMI is that it doesn't mention playing with miniatures. I discovered this not long ago. All other of D&D editions do. It created two types of D&D players.

 

[Weiley31]

isn't THAC0 just THAC0-Monster AC=Target Number to roll equal or above to hit?

Said THACO changes based on your equipment and/or bonuses/penalties

 

[dave2008]

According to the Moldvay Basic Set people using ranged attacks and spells are not in melee, if you were in melee those were not options. People casting spells also could not move.

It basically means those not dancing around in melee resolve their actions before those doing so.

That makes more sense - thank you for the clarification.

 

[Li Shenron]

BECMI is where I started and I will always love it.

Just a few spare opinions here...

Alignment felt to us pretty much a Heroes vs Villain thing, with Neutral = unaligned/undecided/don't trust. Also the idea of alignments languages was too goofy... having 2 creatures from faraway worlds being able to fully communicate because of sharing the same morals was somehow intriguing but actually implied too much about Alignment being an uber cosmic force. I felt that the 9 alignments were a big improvement overall, even if most players ended up playing them too strictly.

Much more bounded bonuses and HP wasn't bad at all. It made every extra point gained a great achievement. Later editions felt a bit like inflation, although they do have the benefit of allowing much bigger battles with lots of lesser monsters (but then they often didn't handle them well from an action economy POV).

Name levels had a lot of charm... but also implied a bit too much on the narrative. Nowadays I rather prefer complete independence between adventuring level and out-of-adventure power and status.

Nature Cleric vs Druid has never been a problem per se. It's a problem only when a DM thinks that everything that's in a book exists commonly in the fantasy world, and overlapping requires an explanation. It doesn't.

Wish restricted to top character level was a good idea. But I think an even better idea would be Wish to be not a spell but something else. As a potentially "can do anything" effect it has a wonderful narrative potential but it requires to be seriously restricted in how often it is allowed, so it just can't be a daily option at ANY level. As a "replicate any lesser spell" is gamebreaking in a different way, but in addition it's also boring. My solution is simply not to run the game at a level where Wish is available, maybe reach that level at the end of a campaign but I wouldn't stay there. It is just better to have Wish as an occasional single-use power as from a ring or another magic item, then I don't even have to think about how to nerf it each time.

 

[teitan]

THAC0 may have been much easier than 1E's combat matrices, but d20 + bonus vs. AC was much easier than THAC0. I was still running 2E when 3E was new, but after I was exposed to the new combat system I house-ruled it in place of THAC0...

Thac0 was just a different way to explain the combat matrix. It was from Basic, became a standard reference in 1e and integrated as the official explanation in 2e.

 

[Alzrius]

Thac0 was just a different way to explain the combat matrix. It was from Basic, became a standard reference in 1e and integrated as the official explanation in 2e.

For those interested, Jon Peterson of Playing at the World fame traces the history of THAC0 on his blog.

 

[Blue Orange]

What a fascinating and enlightening thread. Knowing too much about old editions can trip you up because you think you know things you don't actually know.

It is interesting that a lot of the OSR games use some version of BECMI rather than 1e or 2e as their basis for people looking for a 'retro' experience. Simpler and fewer rules, I'd guess, which was always one of the OSR attractions, from what I can tell.

I went from 1e to 5e, which was entertaining when I forgot about using hit dice to recover HP and instead stocked up on healing potions, freaked out when a spectre showed up (oh, temporary loss of maximum HP if it hits you? You used to permanently lose two entire levels unless you could find a 16th level cleric to cast restoration!), was planning to dual class into wizard to get Fire Shield when I realized it only did 2d6 instead of double the attacker's damage.

I actually went through the tables of monster resistances for the various editions. Devils have been immune to fire and taken full damage from electricity for a while.

 

[Zardnaar]

I got mine used off eBay in 2009 for $25 (including shipping). But I remember looking for a second copy soon after and the cheapest copies I found were already more than double that. I just looked and the cheapest one I found was around 80 bucks, but most were $100 or more.

I sold mine in 95 for around $15. 2E was newer and "advanced" ergo better.

 

[Don Durito]

In general I don't mind this, but the order of events always bothered me. I would have melee first, ranged second, and spells last. I could see an argument for bonus action and cantrip spells moving up in the order.

It really doesn't matter much.

The two things that matter are:

• Spells come last
• And ranged comes before movement.

 

[Ath-kethin]

isn't THAC0 just THAC0-Monster AC=Target Number to roll equal or above to hit?

Said THACO changes based on your equipment and/or bonuses/penalties

Yes. But it might involve subtracting negative numbers, which freaks people out to this day.