D&D 5E The Smooth Talker

[MechaPilot]

I'm thinking about trying out a Smooth Talking character build during my next campaign. I want him to be able to persuade or decive his way out of just about any situation. The DM has allowed just about any unearthed arcana. My questions are, have any of you ever created a character like this? What class works best (bard was my thought, though I could also see rogue or sorcerer)? What feats would be worth picking up? Any other ideas or tips would also be appreciated

I think it's important to step back and ask how your DM handles social interaction. Is success/failure determined entirely on the roll of the dice? Is it entirely determined by what you say in-character? Does your DM use a mix of the two where the roll controls success or failure, but what is said can grant modifiers or determine the degree of success?

Also, does your DM allow peripheral checks to benefit your social interaction? Here's an example from one of my games in one of my homebrew settings. The party was going to negotiate with a human baron whose territory bordered one of the great forests inhabited by the elves. In the relatively recent history of that world, about 50 years prior, the border humans and elves had been at war. The humans were rather soundly defeated, and they still tell stories of evil elf magic killing and bewitching their soldiers (some of whom were never seen again, and were actually traded to fey lords/ladies as servants by the elves).

I allowed the humans in the party to make Int checks to see if they knew about the superstitions and resentment of that region toward elves; if any of them had been border humans, they would have automatically known this. I allowed the Dwarf a check as well, because his people trade with humans, but he was not a travelling merchant so he rolled with a penalty. They made at least one of the checks and were able to recall that humans in that region feared and resented elves. Consequently, they knew that openly bringing an elf to the meeting would not be a great idea. The elf went anyway, in disguise as a human. Most humans haven't seen an elf at all at this point, so it went off mostly without a hitch. Although, at one point the Baron noticed the elf character's accent and asked where she was from. Fortunately, the group didn't panic, and they were able to play it off as an accent from a faraway land.

I also used that same Int check to determine what the party knew about the region in general. The Dwarf recalled overhearing craftsmen drinking in his home town and saying that wealthy border humans of that region were fond of jade, which were often exchanged as gifts. When the party met with the baron, they presented him with a small bag of jade figurines they'd previously found in a bandit fortress. I was prepared to either give them a bonus to the check, or to have it positively affect their degree of success. Since they succeeded on the check without the bonus, I applied it to the degree of their success.

 

[Ahglock]

See targets on page 204 of the PHB. Creatures that are the targets if spells with no obvious effects do't necessarily know they are under a spell. Dominate a monster and force them to do somethig? Obvious magic. Charm a monster and persuaded to do something you wanted to do and it may never know that you've influenced it... unless the Spell says they know (like charm person). Hypnotic Gaze has no such limitation. If you hold them locked in a trance for hours, that is obvious magic. Hypnotize them for a few seconds while you suggest a reasonable activity... perhaps they never realize you influenced them magicalyy. It is all up to the DM.

Maybe I'm just a jerk GM but hypnotic gaze ends at the end of the turn you stop maintaining it. So you use it, they are incapacitated and charmed. You use your action to convince them to let you past at advantage thanks to the charm. They can now act on their initiative(assuming it's rolled in a social encounter). They start to let you past but the charm ends and are like WTF why am I opening this door for you. They will likely figure out that they were charmed if it was out of character to do the act they were about to do.

So basically how I read it unless the duration of the spell/effect continues to the action it doesn't really work. The only spell I can think of that is both subtle and had a duration where they are not incapacitated is suggestion. And with suggestion while they may not know it was a spell of it is sufficiently out of character they figure it out. Giving away your war horse to a random beggar is the example and I'm going to go with they'd figure it out if they are reasonably bright. It's not like magic is a unknown force in most campaign worlds.

Maybe I'm being a jerk. But the bag of tricks spell casters have is pretty massive even with my restrictive readings. I don't feel like I need to make it bigger with overly generous readings on rules.

I am maybe overly generous on my readings of what you can do with a mundane skill though.


The point an above post made about checking to see how social skills are run is a good one. I've played in a lot of groups where no rolls were made. The character could have a 3 charisma and if the player was charming they'd succeed. I've played in die roll only groups and somewhere in between.

Mine is somewhere in between leaning to die roll only. The role playing isn't in how you say it that's the roll but in the general plan or intent. And that can grant advantage or make a impossible auto fail a possible roll. Using the guarded door example I might rule it's just impossible to ask him into letting you past. But if you make a disguise, bribe him, do some legwork and blackmail him it might now be possible.

 

[jgsugden]

Maybe I'm just a jerk GM but hypnotic gaze ends at the end of the turn you stop maintaining it. So you use it, they are incapacitated and charmed. You use your action to convince them to let you past at advantage thanks to the charm. They can now act on their initiative(assuming it's rolled in a social encounter). They start to let you past but the charm ends and are like WTF why am I opening this door for you. They will likely figure out that they were charmed if it was out of character to do the act they were about to do.

So basically how I read it unless the duration of the spell/effect continues to the action it doesn't really work. The only spell I can think of that is both subtle and had a duration where they are not incapacitated is suggestion. And with suggestion while they may not know it was a spell of it is sufficiently out of character they figure it out. Giving away your war horse to a random beggar is the example and I'm going to go with they'd figure it out if they are reasonably bright. It's not like magic is a unknown force in most campaign worlds.

Maybe I'm being a jerk. But the bag of tricks spell casters have is pretty massive even with my restrictive readings. I don't feel like I need to make it bigger with overly generous readings ...

As I said... up to the DM.

However, if we take our queue from cinema, etc...

I don't recall a scene where the Stormtroopers said, "Wait a Vader darn parsec... those were the Droids we were looking for!"

My rulings as a DM are pretty simple: What is fun for the group? We'll do that...