The State of American Animation

[reanjr]

The only point I'm a little skeptical on is your comment, " ....is exactly what is was meant to be." I'm not totally sure myself what Disney and the creators of the show "meant" for it to be. But I assumed it was suppose to offer a comdey/action show for girls. They saw "Power Puff Girls" as successful over at Cartoon Network and wanted to offer a show to appeal to a similiar audience. That's the vibe I get from Disney. But I could be off base.

I think it was "meant to be" something for Christy Carlson Romano to do since Even Stevens was cancelled (best show on Disney, IMO).

Your version tells it differently. You're saying (and correct me if I'm wrong - we seem to be missing each other on this ) that "Kim Possible" was meant to be for boys. Its possible, but I really doubt it. I think it was more like Disney's attempt to match CN's success with "Power Puff Girls" as well as tap into the same audience that enjoyed "Spy Kids". I think its more about that.

Actually it seems to be more directed towards boys (or at least gender unspecific) to me... but then I never liked the things I was supposed to like as a child...

 

[Chain Lightning]

hold on a sec...so much to read

 

[Chain Lightning]

I don't. I don't see much of a reason to do a serious animated movie when the same movie can be done with live action. I could see it being used as a niche market for inexpensive productions, but for mainstream movies, I think it would be a waste. A good example of where I see animation having a purpose is in the HBO series Spawn. HBO could not (at the time; they probably could now) have made that show live action. The expense would have been enormous. But making it an animated show brought it into the realm of possibility. With CG getting cheaper and cheaper every year, I think we'll see that animation has even lost that niche, leaving it only for the most fanciful of productions (a la children's television). Not to mention, after Sin City comes out we'll have that new fad of animation that will really drive the American animation market for the next half-decade. By the time it's over, CG will be even cheaper.

Okay, not sure if some of you are aware of this, but CGI is animation. 2d animation and CGI animation are under the same category as "animation". So you saying "With CG getting cheaper and cheaper every year, I think we'll see that animation has even lost that niche..." is like saying, "with microwave ovens making food faster to cook, we'll see that heating up food has lost its niche."

CGI is animation.



I said this: "....but the core of it is this: doesn't matter who's better, Japan or America, doesn't matter if it can be done or not, because it can.....the thing is, that serious mature animated action adventure (the stuff people like us love to watch) are not being done in America enough. Don't you all agree?"

then you said: "There's many productions I would like to see like this...."

So basically, you do agree then. Right?

I don't. I don't see much of a reason to do a serious animated movie when the same movie can be done with live action.

I never said it had to be a movie. But you're right - why do it in animation when you can do it live action? I think I'm being misunderstood again.

 

[Chain Lightning]

Yes, I find the "You need to watch 3 hours before it gets good" defense very amusing. If you need to watch that much before it gets good... then it's not that good.

I don't know about others, but I got hooked on Gundam right away. I didnt' take 3 hours. I think it took 3 minutes.

But that's me.

 

[Desdichado]

All villainy in Harry Potter can be traced, either directly or indirectly, to Voldemort.

**cough, cough** Dursleys **cough cough** Dolores Umbridge **, etc.

 

[WizarDru]

Oh, I assumed you were directing it to me because ...I think, not sure....that I was the only one that mentioned "Kim Possible".

Yes, but you weren't the only one who was talking about shows like Kim Possible, and questioning the seriousness of the story. And I'm not sure what I said to imply that I thought KP was for boys...it's solidly for girls, and I thought that's what I said, pointing out how the show de-emphasizes much of the action in favor of the situational humor and relationship issues. It is, however, accessible to boys, which is true of any action-based show, regardless of which gender it's targeted at. Notice how W.I.T.C.H. and Kim Possible both have prominent but generally ineffectual male heroes. Like reanjr says, KP was made to give two of Disney's teen actors some work, to pull in young female viewers and to push some merchandise while they're at it, such as the KP cheerleader set, action figure collection and various show paraphenalia, such as t-shirts, backpacks and lunchboxes....some of which, my daughter has.

I'm confused as to how that is a double standard. If the guys are just as beefed up (and I've seen the crotch bulges in comics, so don't tell me they aren't) how is that two standards? It's one. Comic book characters are attractive. That's not sexist.

There are two standards because generally, female characters end up wearing much less functional costumes than male characters do, in comics. Take a look, for example, at this George Perez picture of the Avengers at 30. Quick, other than Thor and Quasar, how many men have their arms completely uncovered? Now, how many female characters? Now, how many men have completely uncovered legs? None? How about the female characters? How many men have exposed chests? The Hulk? Now how many female characters have deep 'V' cut outfits, bikini tops or bustiers? Why is Crystal the only one wearing a jacket? And this is from an artist who treats women well, compared to some of the really bad hacks. The point is that women in comics, more than men, are more commonly objectified, and often shown wearing outfits that don't really make sense in the context of what they are doing. The reason, obviously, is the target audience, but I think it's a bit hard to swallow that there's no sexism at work there. If I had time, I'd link the 'Girlfriend in the Refrigerator' site, which shows the many, many unpleasant things that happen to the ladies foolish enough to be involved with male comic heroes (even if they're superheroes themselves).

 

[Thanee]

It seems to me today that the animation market is dominated by Japanese anime, now I myself like anime, and even know a bit of Japanese myself.

Dunno, when I think of animation these days, I immediately think of Shrek, Nemo or Incredibles. I don't think there is any japanese anime, which can even get close to such coolness.

And Simpsons and Futurama? That's a class of its own, well ahead of all that anime stuff.

Bye
Thanee

 

[mojo1701]

Dunno, when I think of animation these days, I immediately think of Shrek, Nemo or Incredibles. I don't think there is any japanese anime, which can even get close to such coolness.

And Simpsons and Futurama? That's a class of its own, well ahead of all that anime stuff.

Bye
Thanee

Heh, you said it.

 

[Chun-tzu]

You are going in with expectations that other people SHOULD like anime because you do. And your expectations are not being met, so you blame it the fact that "[they] haven't seen the right anime shows".

Wow, am I sick of people accusing me of being some raving anime fanboy who thinks anime can do no wrong. Twice in this thread, already.

I do NOT think people SHOULD like anime. I think MOST people have seen very little anime, and a very limited selection. I think anime has covered so many different art styles, genres, and story types that saying "I don't like anime" is like saying "I don't like movies" or "I don't like television" or "I don't like books." All of which is entirely possible.

If you have seen a wide variety of critically and/or popularly acclaimed anime, however, and found nothing that you care for, then yes, I am at a loss as to how that can be. The same way I would be in the case of movies, television, etc. If you choose never to watch any anime again, I think "that's a shame" not "you should try this." Frankly, it doesn't bother me if you don't like anime. It DOES bother me if people go around saying "I've seen all this anime, and it's all crap."

 

[Chun-tzu]

If American television was the only exposure an American had to anime, they would be MORE apt to enjoy it rather than less. American television only shows that anime that is fit for American mass consumption.

This is entirely not true. You may enjoy the standards set on American television, but many people find them restrictive.

This has everything to do with the original topic of this thread. American television has far more restrictions on violence and nudity than Japanese (or many other countries). This is not necessarily a bad thing. But for anything animated, the culture assumes that the show is for children. This is not always true, in the case of anime.

There are many reasons why various anime shows have not yet hit American shores, most having to do with business reasons. It's a matter of finding the right distributor for the show in question, whether that's a movie studio like Disney (and Studio Ghibli), TV network like Cartoon Network, or DVD/video production. Will we ever see widespread distribution of anime? We're seeing the beginnings of it. Maybe it'll continue increasing, maybe not. But the assumption that there's nothing else in Japan that's fit for American consumption is wrong.