The State of ENWorld (too important to go to Meta)

[Maldur]

ENworld rocks, and yes it changed.
I notice myself lurking much more, as some people are very good in saying exactly what I wanted to say, only faster and more eloquent.

For me its still that ongoing family party.
Where people arrive.
Go home for a while.
Run in say hello, and move to the backporch where they hangout drink tomuch and get into fights as grandma is still in the frontroom(NKL).
Or move to the kitchen and hang out with the people there and talk about the kids, or cooking, and try a new batch of cookies (randomlingshouse).
Or step down to the basement and have an discussion about some rule (rulesforum).
etc etc

I KNOW I did meet some really great people here, and I will continue to do so.

About the clique thing: When you freshly arrive in a room where people have been hanging out together for a while, you will not get all the in-jokes, know the history of the group, etc. This can be very awkward in the first few moment. But that does not make it a bad place. And what will a fresh Enworlder know about "us all being part of Piratecats mind", "Lemoncurry", "and with what kinda stick you can hit Hong"(and when, and where he lives)

But if I have to move a body, there is a big chance I will call someone I got to know on ENworld. So thank you all!

 

[fourthmensch]

Well, I'm quite a recent convert, so I can't really speak to how it used to be in the old days, but I can offer a newcomer's perspective for all you oldtimers p). Of the various message boards that I have perused, I have found EN World to be the most consistently civil, friendly, and interesting. Opinions are sometimes strong and tempers can run high, but in general it all stays within the bounds of friendly debate. I love the community feel here, and the welcome that noobies, such as myself, receive.

 

[Maraxle]

Not trying to beat on you, as I know a few others have already commented, but where else on the net has a less argumentative culture? I find this place amazingly civil, and the mods amazingly tolerant and friendly. The no religion/politics stuff is a godsend, AFAIAC.

Well, one example is the arcade forum that I now frequent. These are people who are creating or restoring arcade cabinets, and they come in exchanging tips, showing off what they've made, etc. In a way it's really similar to here in that you have the people who create (publishers), the people who are hoping to create (wannabe publishers, DMs showing off their world, etc), and the people who are just along for the ride and are soaking in information and ideas (most DMs/players).

The difference I see between there and here is that in that group, they seem to appreciate a good effort, rather than expecting something that is 110% perfect. Somebody might come along with a cabinet that I think looks amateurish, or appears to me to have some pretty significant flaws, but rather than say "OMG, that's just awful. X is so much better." people seem to look at the parts that are good, comment on those, and then offer some constructive criticism on how they would make the rest better. People might even disagree on how to make it better, but rather than put down the other ideas offered up, they offer their own ideas as alternatives, rather than the be-all-end-all of solutions.

In my eyes, it's just a completely different mindset. Maybe it's because the culture here is centered around a set of rules and a game, so there is an underlying, possibly subconscious, idea that there always has to be a right or a wrong answer, rather than a spectrum of possibilities.

Sorry to get a little preachy here, but now comes the part where I offer my alternative. If you want to make EN World a friendlier place, take a second and look for the good in the ideas that are presented to you. Compliment those. For the parts that you feel need fixing, offer some potential solutions. If someone else starts beating on your solution, don't get defensive about it. That's the approach I'm going to try to take.

 

[Knight Otu]

Somebody might come along with a cabinet that I think looks amateurish, or appears to me to have some pretty significant flaws, but rather than say "OMG, that's just awful. X is so much better." people seem to look at the parts that are good, comment on those, and then offer some constructive criticism on how they would make the rest better. People might even disagree on how to make it better, but rather than put down the other ideas offered up, they offer their own ideas as alternatives, rather than the be-all-end-all of solutions.

What you describe is to me the same thing that happens on ENWorld, usually. Someone posts an idea for a house rule, monster, etc... and other people give their ideas on how that house rule might be made better for what it intends to do. Admittedly, posts in the Rules forum tends to have a feel that they are a "final and best solution", but that is, as you rightly identify, due to the fact that there sometimes are correct answers in the official ruleset. But overall, I feel the alternative you propose is already practiced on ENWorld, and widely so. That's my impression, at least, and it is quite possible that I read mostly threads that use that mindset, and miss the threads that gave you the impression that you have.

In the end, I guess it all comes down to perspective. I have seen forums that, in my mind, would make the WotC boards look like a paradise in comparison, and boards that appear to be friendly, but only need a little spark to explode. But no one from those communities would agree with that impression, and propably would use many of the same arguments that have been used in this thread for ENWorld.

 

[Crothian]

No, it isn't you... as far as I know. I kind of gave up on the site sponsored reviews before you started doing them. Aren't you doing reviews of PDFs?

I do like 95% pdfs...I review a bound book every now and then for something different. I didn't expect you to name names, but I just wanted to make sure it wasn't me, and if it was to state that I don't mind being corrected. I'm not the best reviewer EN World has, I know that. But I also don't mind hearing back from my reviews.

 

[diaglo]

First was that I am not happy with the new 3.5 edition. This has dropped my interest in the game greatly. With most people willing to give up on 3.0 there is less for me to talk about with regards to the game. I hope others are having fun, but to me 3.5 is like 2E too me and I ended up spending 10 years out of the game until 3E revived my interest. I will occasionaly (likle this) bring up this point but in general I have refrained since I don't want to start flame wars and I am tired of being shouted down for darring to disagree with 3.5.

i don't like 3.11ed for Workgroups and i still post.

 

[Piratecat]

If you want to make EN World a friendlier place, take a second and look for the good in the ideas that are presented to you. Compliment those. For the parts that you feel need fixing, offer some potential solutions. If someone else starts beating on your solution, don't get defensive about it. That's the approach I'm going to try to take.

Excellent advice. It's why I always try to help out peoples' plot and brainstorming threads; folks have done that for me and it's been immensely valuable, so I try to return the favor in kind. The fact that so many people try to do this same sort of thing is one of the reasons I love it here.

 

[Napftor]

I think what Morrus said about split up forums works as an answer for RW. The answer is to skim those forums you don't often check. The people you may not have seen in a while are just around the fence. This was a good idea for the poor bloated General forum, but I find that too many irrelevant topics here on why rules/supplements are broken force me into the Publishers and Sci-fi forums almost exclusively.

As to the topic of scathing product reviews, since most of the things I've worked on have gotten more or less favorable reviews, I'm not going to touch this. Suffice it to say that ENWorld in no way accounts for the entire gaming population of the planet, so worrying about bad reviews here probably isn't worth the rise in blood pressure, Darrin.

 

[WizarDru]

I have to admit, I really disagree with RW's assessment.

I remember when the Pantheon was around, for example. Now that was a clique on ENWorld. The Hivemind is just a running gag, as far as I can tell, and clearly labelled and easy enough to avoid, if you're of such a mind.

Compare Nutkinland, RPG.net, the WotC boards, the DND forums on Usenet, Andy Collins.net, Montecook.com and other forums, and I think you'll find that ENWorld is the most welcoming, best moderated and generally the most congenial of all the forums I've ever visited. I enjoy having rational, courteous and engaging discussions here.

Some arguments have been worn out, sure. After all, if Maraxle and I have gone around the topic of Paladins 10 times in the last three years, there's only so much more we have to discuss on the topic. Will I ignore a 'Eberron is going to really stink' thread? Sure. I already have an opinion on the topic. That doesn't mean I may not scan it...but I've become darned busy in the last three years....continuous posting isn't in my agenda any longer. Just maintaining a game, family, busy job and other factors are enough.

Further, with the splitting of forums, I'm all over the map: spend a little time in general, story hour, computers, TV, rogue's gallery and more. I think RW's not realizing that there are still plenty of posters from different publishers shows that he's just not frequenting the forums at the time they are. I posted a thread two weeks ago about superhero RPGs...and got lots of useful, informed answers to my question, including seveal authors dropping by to discuss their products. I started a followup thread to discuss my selection of Mutants and Masterminds (and my joy of owning it) and like saying 'Beetlejuice' three times, Steve Kenson stopped by to not only point me towards Green Ronin resources for the game, but to push another company's product.

How cool is that?

ENworld has its flaws, but at the end of the day, it RAWKS, and there is no forum I would rather spend my time at than this one.

To Morrus, Henry, PC, Hypersmurf and all the rest...a tip of the cap. Good work, all.

(by the by, just so it's clear...I LIKE some of the other forums mentioned, particularly Nutkinland...but it's not for everyone. The WotC boards, though...).

 

[mmadsen]

Power Laws, Weblogs, and Inequality

From Clay Shirky's Power Laws, Weblogs, and Inequality:

A new social system starts, and seems delightfully free of the elitism and cliquishness of the existing systems. Then, as the new system grows, problems of scale set in. Not everyone can participate in every conversation. Not everyone gets to be heard. Some core group seems more connected than the rest of us, and so on.

Prior to recent theoretical work on social networks, the usual explanations invoked individual behaviors: some members of the community had sold out, the spirit of the early days was being diluted by the newcomers, et cetera. We now know that these explanations are wrong, or at least beside the point. What matters is this: Diversity plus freedom of choice creates inequality, and the greater the diversity, the more extreme the inequality.

In systems where many people are free to choose between many options, a small subset of the whole will get a disproportionate amount of traffic (or attention, or income), even if no members of the system actively work towards such an outcome. This has nothing to do with moral weakness, selling out, or any other psychological explanation. The very act of choosing, spread widely enough and freely enough, creates a power law distribution.