The thing I miss most from AD&D is...

[TheYeti1775]

...Snip...
In the early days of D&D, getting your stronghold, your keep, your lands, your kingdom--that was a major goal of adventuring. It was to build a base of many underlings to support you.

Nowadays, though, that seems to be mostly avoided by players. They want to ensure that they can never be tied down to any obligation, no matter what the benefits are.

Has this happened, in your opinion?

Remember the stronghold rules fondly.
The first time they really came into play we were playing TOEE, the DM altered the structuring of the Temple so that there was no collapse at the end if she died, same with the nodes.
It became the new base of operations for 3 players with several characters each.
Actually sucked up a lot of our treasure to repair the Temple and change it into a place of good vice dedicated site to evil. From there many later adventuring companies based themselves out of there in our world.

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Far as things I miss....
I would say many wouldn't like what I miss.
Weapon Speed and Spell Casting Speed adjusting your initiative. I know many ignored those rules, but I found they leveled the combat experience throughout.
While the Fighter/Barbarians could wield ungodly damages with Great Swords, the THIEF could hit for that quick strike with their dagger.
The casters had to worry for their spells being disrupted. Made that 1 segment Magic Missile versus the 3 segment Fireball stack up nicely when planning it out.

But as was mentioned before, I think the number one thing to miss is the old groups I played with. But yea that's what Facebook is for - lol. One of my old DM's friended me this past week.

 

[Obryn]

Weapon Speed and Spell Casting Speed adjusting your initiative. I know many ignored those rules, but I found they leveled the combat experience throughout.

[nitpick] Although Casting Speed affects (or replaces, depending on how you read the rules) your initiative in 1e, Weapon Speed Factor never does. The only time it comes into play is, oddly, during initiative ties, where a much quicker weapon gets multiple attacks. Weapon length affects attack order during a charge - no matter who is charging, the attacker with a longer weapon attacks first. With that said, using weapon speed factor on initiative was a fairly common houserule that ended up in 2e as a standardized rule, along with rolling a d10 instead of a d6.[/nitpick]



-O

 

[radferth]

I actually miss the 1st ed. initiative system. A simple d6 roll that potentially took many factors into account, and no two DMs I encountered ran it the same way. I know most folks consider that a bug, but for me it was a feature. And I do really prefer team initiative over individual. I initially loved the 3rd ed. system, but at may table it seemed to encourage many of my players to do tactically stupid things, and their solution was to try and design characters who could survive doing tactically stupid things, rather than learn tactics. I guess I gamed with too many Wolverine wannabes.

That would be another thing I miss about 1st ed. (although not as specifically): characters you played rather than designed. Or, more properly, I miss the absence of character design in the game.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I actually miss the 1st ed. initiative system. A simple d6 roll that potentially took many factors into account, and no two DMs I encountered ran it the same way. I know most folks consider that a bug, but for me it was a feature. And I do really prefer team initiative over individual. I initially loved the 3rd ed. system, but at may table it seemed to encourage many of my players to do tactically stupid things, and their solution was to try and design characters who could survive doing tactically stupid things, rather than learn tactics. I guess I gamed with too many Wolverine wannabes.

That would be another thing I miss about 1st ed. (although not as specifically): characters you played rather than designed. Or, more properly, I miss the absence of character design in the game.

Yup. The 1E initiative system could get wonky but however it was used, team initiative was great. The ability of a group of PC's to act as a unit rather than an associated group of individuals was cool.

I also miss character generation as opposed to building. Roll some stats, pick a class. buy equipment and play.

 

[Chainsaw]

I also miss character generation as opposed to building. Roll some stats, pick a class. buy equipment and play.

Agreed.. I sometimes get "analysis paralysis" with all the options, spending waaaaaaaaay too much time deliberating over choices that are far, far in the future, but that, somehow, I have convinced myself need to be resolved before I can start playing..

 

[Oryan77]

The thing I miss most from ADD is the special attention I got from teachers in grade school. It took awhile, but I finally learned what it was that the quick brown fox jumped over.

Wait, AD&D?

Oh, then that's easy. I miss Burples: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJaDez0mJF0]YouTube - Baby Burple[/ame]

Now Mt. Dew is the leading drink in most groups, but I sure do miss drinking my Burples while playing AD&D.

 

[haakon1]

That's one of the big shifts I've seen over the years.

In the early days of D&D, getting your stronghold, your keep, your lands, your kingdom--that was a major goal of adventuring. It was to build a base of many underlings to support you.

Nowadays, though, that seems to be mostly avoided by players. They want to ensure that they can never be tied down to any obligation, no matter what the benefits are.

Has this happened, in your opinion?

Honestly, it doesn't seem that different. We thought more about this stuff when we played AD&D, but it was mostly away from the gaming table and irrelevant to it -- drawing designs for our fortifications, deciding which hirelings to hire, etc. At the gaming table, that stuff didn't come into play.

Nowadays, the group I'm DMing is less interested in the stronghold building stuff, but they seem interested enough in the NPC's and do set down roots to some extent. In my campaign, though, there are usually reasons to visit the same "shire" (safe, homefront) places and "borderlands" areas more than once, and there's only one big city to train and sell loot in, so people do get semi-attached to that stuff -- it's more about knowing the people who work at the pub than building a stronghold, though.

 

[rgard]

Thought of another thing I miss.

Morale rules.

I love having a mechanic that I can use to determine if and when the baddies run away.

I think just about every DM I knew back then hand-waved that rule out of existence. The NPCs always seemed to fight to the death.

 

[Storm Raven]

Yup. The 1E initiative system could get wonky but however it was used, team initiative was great. The ability of a group of PC's to act as a unit rather than an associated group of individuals was cool.

Except they aren't functioning as a team. They are functioning as people forced to act as a team. Individual initiative allows the players to work as a team if they can do so, which makes it a question of skill rather than a side effect of a game mechanic.

I also miss character generation as opposed to building. Roll some stats, pick a class. buy equipment and play.

That's not really the fault of the system. If you agonize over what feat or attribute you are taking now because of how it will affect you when you are 6th or 10th level, then that's not the game system's fault.

 

[Aus_Snow]

That's not really the fault of the system. If you agonize over what feat or attribute you are taking now because of how it will affect you when you are 6th or 10th level, then that's not the game system's fault.

IMO, it is indeed the 'fault' of the system (i.e., the difference in experience is due to the system's design). Not a matter of better or worse, except where, well, it subjectively is.

Some systems require a whole lot more building in order to roll up a character, just by default. Some systems also have 'system mastery' hardwired from the get go. Like 3e, say. There are many tricks and traps that await the unwary or uninitiated, the more so upon reaching higher levels. This was a design choice, not a mistake, or an accident of some kind. And, of course, 3e ain't the only RPG where this holds true.

The difference in chargen time and just plain complexity can be breathtaking, I've noticed. Some rules-light gaming recently has shown me this a number of times, or reminded me once again, more to the point.