The Unstoppable Black Dragon

[takasi]

If most characters need a 17+ to hit it, wouldn't it make more sense for 2-3 characters to use the "aid another" action instead of attacking?

Not sure about 4th edition, but normally you can't aid another with ranged attacks. There's no reason for the dragon to base the party unless they ground it somehow.

 

[Insight]

Mobility Question: With the exception of sleep, how did the party ground the dragon? Did the DMs run the dragons on the ground or in the air?

In our encounter, the dragon was on the ground the entire time. I don't know why it didn't fly. Could be because the room wouldn't allow it (I can't remember if the DM said how tall it was). Could also be the DM being nice to us because we stood little chance as it was.

 

[Kordeth]

Not sure about 4th edition, but normally you can't aid another with ranged attacks. There's no reason for the dragon to base the party unless they ground it somehow.

Not necessarily, we don't know how big the dragon's lair was--the stat block lists the dragon's speed as "fly 7 (clumsy)." There might not be enough room for it to maneuver, even if there's enough altitude.

 

[Insight]

Also: what was the terrain? Could you have retreated to a narrow area, and shoot plug the hole with your defenders while placing your ranged attacked far enough back so as to avoid breath weapon but close enough to shoot the dragon?

The dragon was the same size as the smallest space we could have fought, so it didn't really matter where we fought it. We did try to space out the ranged characters to avoid so much breath weapon-y-ness.

As for the aid thing, the two melee characters flanked the dragon almost the entire time, except when the Fighter was stunned (fear). It would be the same as aiding, except we could both attack.

 

[Sphyre]

Minor Actions:Warlock curse, ranger quarries, paladin challenges, fighter marks.

To my understanding only one mark can exist on any given character. The Paladin and the fighter either have to fight over who gets the mark or give up their mark for the other to have.


And the quarry and curse basically are your "preferred target."

Basically when you hit a target with your quarry or curse, your attack deals extra damage equal to the amount of the extra damage that it says. Basically it makes rangers deal +1d8 to all attacks against it's quarry, and the warlock +1d6 with all it's attacks against it's cursed one.

Mobility Question: With the exception of sleep, how did the party ground the dragon? Did the DMs run the dragons on the ground or in the air?

I think the encounter was in a cave, in which the dragon had no room for flight. I read a few things that said it was in the final room. Room implying indoors, and with a poor maneuverability, there would be no room to sustain that flight if there were enough room to take off.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Oh, it's a flying dragon? I was under the impression they fought it in a dungeon room with a 15' ceiling. The dragon is Large, right? That means a melee combatant could base it (and OA it if it flies away).

And yeah, not sure if you can Aid via a ranged attack. Good point.

 

[takasi]

So the dragon decided to hole himself up in a location he can't maneuver in?

I find that hard to believe.

With everything said about maneuverability and battlefield control, why wouldn't the dragon find a location more suitable for his abilities?

If I were running the game, I would make sure the dragon had a water source to retreat in, preferably one that's acidic. The dragon can swim up, blast with his breath weapon, then swim down. Repeat as necessary.

The only scenario where I might find the 'cornered' dragon believable is if he was just visiting this area for some reason. Even then, I would assume his first order of business would be to work with the kobolds ot dig an escape route (preferably to an underground water supply).

Battlefield conditions have a major impact on challenge ratings, and I'm not sure how any rule system can take into account all of these conditions when building an EL ranking.

 

[Pssthpok]

It's a dragon in a cave, guy. Not that incredulous.

 

[Henry]

Rodrigo, if you're still looking at the thread:

Do you think you could draw up a quick sketch of the dragon's lair from memory and post it? (either by scanning or in a paint program) You've mentioned the positioning of the encounter a couple of times, and I'm getting curious enough to see if my group would want to run it with the dragon and sample PCs to see how far they get, but I want to get as close as I can to the final map.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Rodrigo, if you're still looking at the thread:

Do you think you could draw up a quick sketch of the dragon's lair from memory and post it? (either by scanning or in a paint program) You've mentioned the positioning of the encounter a couple of times, and I'm getting curious enough to see if my group would want to run it with the dragon and sample PCs to see how far they get, but I want to get as close as I can to the final map.

Yeah, give me a minute.