The Unstoppable Black Dragon

[takasi]

The reason I asked those questions was to understand the options available to the dragon's movement.

4th edition combat emphasizes tactical maneuvers, so it seems ironic if they don't showcase fundamental movement advantages that intelligent (non-disposable) dragons normally have. IMO it might have been more interesting to see a lower level dragon who can fly and swim instead of a higher level that's wingless.

 

[Mirtek]

Table skill in 4e is a much bigger part of the game. It isn't enough to find the best spell or maneuver on a class's list. You also have to learn how you and your buddies can best use it.

Doesn't bode well for RPGA games

 

[Sphyre]

There were a few bugs in the system: the dragon's AC and Reflex defense were both 2 points too high, but OTOH its breath weapon damage is a little messed up (it should be 2d6 + mods rather than 1d12 + mods; a single 12 sider is too random for a creature's signature ability).

So the way I'm reading this, is that it's like the paladin's Divine Challenge. It was a bug that was too late to fix for the D&DExp but it's been fixed for the real version of the game?

 

[takasi]

"Is this a good place for me to fight to the death in?"

Well when the fight begins, that's exactly what the dragon should be thinking.

Before that, an intelligent dragon would at least try to modify the environment to make it easier to defend. With all of those kobold slaves, digging an escape tunnel to a water source should be the first item on their agenda. To make the encounter memorable and flavorful, the dungeon should also match the black dragon's favored swampland environment.

 

[Mistwell]

Well when the fight begins, that's exactly what the dragon should be thinking.

Before that, an intelligent dragon would at least try to modify the environment to make it easier to defend. With all of those kobold slaves, digging an escape tunnel to a water source should be the first item on their agenda. To make the encounter memorable and flavorful, the dungeon should also match the black dragon's favored swampland environment.

The question you keep raising was answered. It was a disposable dragon, a disposable dungeon, and a disposable set of characters. It was a demo of combat, not a role playing demo. It doesn't matter if the dragon was in a box on a friggen mountaintop. It doesn't matter if it was a giant acid breathing low-intelligence lizard without wings at all. Sometimes, you just have to accept the situation presented for demonstration purposes and just let it go!

 

[im_robertb]

Another thing to consider is that if the dragon finds itself up against a group of enemies it's confident it can kill, sitting on the wall and breathing at them just makes it easier for his dinner to run away. Getting up close and personal means Opportunity Attacks if his hors d'oeuvres try to escape.

 

[Zaruthustran]

To make the encounter memorable and flavorful, the dungeon should also match the black dragon's favored swampland environment.

Totally agree for an actual adventure, but this was a delve. A memorable, flavorful encounter was not the goal. The goal was to pit the PCs in a straight up fight against a dragon. More specifically, the goal was to pit the dragon's combat stats vs. the combat stats of the PCs.

Again, I'm with you on the whole "dragons in adventures should be cool and interesting opponents" thing. But that's not what this particular encounter was about. This dragon was indeed disposable, by design. They may as well have put a big leash on it and staked it to the floor, because it's only purpose for existing was to get attacked by PCs.

 

[takasi]

I think you can create an encounter that showcases combat and also has interesting flavor and mechanics. I also think you can create an encounter that showcases combat but is overall unrealistic and imbalanced.

I also question the goal of pitting the dragon's combat stats vs. the combat stats of the PCs if the dragon's unable to react as a normal dragon should. It breaks my sense of verisimilitude.

Is there any specific reason why they couldn't have made the delve a little more balanced and flavorful at the end? Why not use a lower level dragon but let it fly? Or have tactics that allow the PCs to defeat the dragon without killing it (offering an escape route)?

I think in this case if some people were disappointed in the delve's finale, the adventure design is to blame and not the actual rules.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

It doesn't matter if the dragon was in a box on a friggen mountaintop.

I would not fight him in a box.

 

[Xethreau]

NVM, I'm wrong.