The warforged, restoration, and you

[Enkhidu]

Greater Restoration also heals ability drain, drained levels, and negative levels, none of which Heal will do. So it's not as though you're not getting a benefit for the higher-level effect.

Yet they have overlapping and identical effects, only one of which is halved (and the one that is higher level too boot)? This is a hard sell.

 

[Nim]

Then how many times do you need to cast Restoration to completely heal a Warforged of ability damage?

Similarly, how many times do you need to case Lesser Restoration to completely heal a Warforged of ability damage?

I'm avoiding that question because I think the ultimate answer is that the Warforged racial description was ambiguously written and needs to be made more clear. I think it was likely the authors' intent that Warforged should get less benefit from Restoration and Heal than non-Warforged, precisely because they specifically mentioned ability damage. However, your Zeno's Paradox issue with the halving and rounding is valid, and a good argument against just healing half the existing damage.

Looks to me like the person who wrote the rule didn't think through all of the possible cases.

I wouldn't be surprised if a future edition listed specific effects for Warforged for Restoration, Heal, and Greater Restoration.

I'd take a guess as to what those specific effects will be, but that'd look a lot like a house rule

 

[Nim]

Yet they have overlapping and identical effects, only one of which is halved (and the one that is higher level too boot)? This is a hard sell.

Oh, I think you might be responding to someone else on that. I'd assume that if one is halved, the other is also. Like I said in the post just above, though, I don't think that's going to be the final solution once this percolates up to whoever's writing Eberron errata these days.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Is it a reasonable interpretation to use half the warforged ability score? I.e. if he has a STR 18 and, regardless of ability damage, a restoration would cure 9 points per 'pop'?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

It seems pretty clear by the use of the word 'certain' that it wasn't intended to be exhaustive. Therefore, healing falls well within that exception.

An interpretation which is backed up where?

Oh, and lay off the 'infinite' unless you can come up with an actual example.

Healing rounds down, because there's nothing that says it should be rounded up. A healing spell which heals 1 point of damage (ability or otherwise), divided in half, heals 0 damage. Accordingly, if you cast Restoration and only Restoration on a warforged, eventually you will get to the point where it is suffering from 1 and only 1 point of damage. At this point, Restoration will not restore any further ability damage. Lesser Restoration would, unless you insist on applying the same logic to Lesser Restoration.

In fact, this is a point of inconsistency in your interpretation.

Lesser Restoration, when cast on a warforged with 2 points of ability damage, according to you, will fix the warforged. A roll of 4 would result in 2 points being healed. Here you do not take into account the amount of damage that requires healing.

However, a full Restoration would not fix the same warforged because, here, you do take into account the amount of damage that requires healing.

Why is that?

Why isn't "Cures all ability damage" equivalent to "Cures an infinite number of points of ability damage"?

 

[Starglim]

1) 2 points
2) Half of all ability damage suffered. Half of 14 = 7 points.
3) Half of 150 hit points = 75 hit points
Immediately ends all ability damage - "ends the condition" is not a numerical amount so it cannot be halved. 14 points restored.

 

[reveal]

Why isn't "Cures all ability damage" equivalent to "Cures an infinite number of points of ability damage"?

Let's say CLW is applied towards a character who is down 2 points. The cleric rolls a 6 on a d8. That's, at its base, 7 points applied. The character gains the 2 points and the rest vanish into thin air. The characer was given the positive energy and was given more than they needed. That makes sense.

Ability damage, however, isn't that simple. If I am down 7 points in strength, I have taken 7 points of ability damage. Not an infinite number. When I am healed, I am given enough points back to restore the damage that I have taken. That is what is meant by "all." I regain all the ability points I have lost. I have lost 7 so I regain 7. If I lost 5, I would regain 5.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Ability damage, however, isn't that simple.

I disagree, but do go on.

If I am down 7 points in strength, I have taken 7 points of ability damage. Not an infinite number. When I am healed, I am not just given a group of ability points back, as the character was given a group of positive energy points above. I am given enough points back to negate the damage that I have taken.

Where does it say that, exactly?

The problem is that the Restoration spell does not specify that it heals "as many points of ability damage as you have suffered." It says it heals "all ability damage." "All ability damage" means that, yes, it heals enough to cure your 7 points of ability damage, but it's also enough to cure Bob the Giant's 14 points of ability damage, and it's also enough to cure Kord's 4,000 points of ability damage.

Same spell, same caster. Non-numeric effect. And, as you point out in your CLW example, there's really no issue when someone is cured for more damage than they have suffered. The extra points are just wasted.

EDIT:

To summarize, if I can cast the spell on one target and get a result of 4,000 "positive energy points," as you call them, why can't I cast the spell on a different target and get a similar result? It's obviously not beyond the power of the spell.

 

[reveal]

I disagree, but do go on.



Where does it say that, exactly?

The problem is that the Restoration spell does not specify that it heals "as many points of ability damage as you have suffered." It says it heals "all ability damage." "All ability damage" means that, yes, it heals enough to cure your 7 points of ability damage, but it's also enough to cure Bob the Giant's 14 points of ability damage, and it's also enough to cure Kord's 4,000 points of ability damage.

Same spell, same caster. Non-numeric effect. And, as you point out in your CLW example, there's really no issue when someone is cured for more damage than they have suffered. The extra points are just wasted.

But that's because it specifies exactly how much is given to them. Either 1d8+x, 2d8+x, 3d8+x, etc. If they don't need that much, it is wasted.

I honestly do not understand why you think healing all ability damage means it heals an infinite amount. I've seen your reasoning but it boggles my mind. To me, it's simple. I take 7 points of ability damage. The spell heals all my ability damage. I get 7 points back. No more, no less (if I'm not warforged of course).

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

See my above edit.