The warforged, restoration, and you

[reveal]

I disagree, but do go on.



Where does it say that, exactly?

The problem is that the Restoration spell does not specify that it heals "as many points of ability damage as you have suffered." It says it heals "all ability damage." "All ability damage" means that, yes, it heals enough to cure your 7 points of ability damage, but it's also enough to cure Bob the Giant's 14 points of ability damage, and it's also enough to cure Kord's 4,000 points of ability damage.

Same spell, same caster. Non-numeric effect. And, as you point out in your CLW example, there's really no issue when someone is cured for more damage than they have suffered. The extra points are just wasted.

EDIT:

To summarize, if I can cast the spell on one target and get a result of 4,000 "positive energy points," as you call them, why can't I cast the spell on a different target and get a similar result? It's obviously not beyond the power of the spell.

I call them "positive energy points" because that's a Cure spell is; positive energy. You actually roll the dice to figure out how much positive energy is channeled. There is a chance it will be more than needed. You don't roll dice for Restoration. You simply heal any ability damage they have taken. As I just said, to me, that means simply giving them enough to negate the damage taken and no more.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I honestly do not understand why you think healing all ability damage means it heals an infinite amount. I've seen your reasoning but it boggles my mind. To me, it's simple. I take 7 points of ability damage. The spell heals all my ability damage. I get 7 points back. No more, no less (if I'm not warforged of course).

Patryn's point is that the spell supplies sufficient curing to restore the ability to normal.

For a human with 7 points of ability damage, sufficient curing to restore the ability to normal is 7 points.

For a human with 14 points of ability damage, sufficient curing to restore the ability to normal is 14 points.

For a warforged with 7 points of ability damage, sufficient curing to restore the ability to normal is 14 points. Does the spell supply 7 points of curing, or does it supply enough to fulfill the spell text (ie all damage cured)?

As I just said, to me, that means simply giving them enough to negate the damage taken and no more.

But enough to negate the damage taken (and no more) is twice as much, for a warforged.

-Hyp.

 

[reveal]

Patryn's point is that the spell supplies sufficient curing to restore the ability to normal.

For a human with 7 points of ability damage, sufficient curing to restore the ability to normal is 7 points.

For a human with 14 points of ability damage, sufficient curing to restore the ability to normal is 14 points.

For a warforged with 7 points of ability damage, sufficient curing to restore the ability to normal is 14 points. Does the spell supply 7 points of curing, or does it supply enough to fulfill the spell text (ie all damage cured)?

-Hyp.

Thank you!

Ok PoE, I see your point now and it makes perfect sense. Damn you, Hypersmurf, why didn't you post earlier. I just wasn't seeing it from that angle and, as I said, honestly couldn't. But this makes sense.

And, yes, Patryn, you can start the "that's what I said!" posts now.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

EDIT:

Well, then, that's another time for Hyp to save the day!

 

[Abraxas]

Healing rounds down, because there's nothing that says it should be rounded up. A healing spell which heals 1 point of damage (ability or otherwise), divided in half, heals 0 damage.

Unless, of course, its a successful attack against an undead creature, in which case it would do a minimum of 1

Oh, and by the way, I agree that Restoration heals all ability damage on a Warforged.

 

[Infiniti2000]

For a warforged with 7 points of ability damage, sufficient curing to restore the ability to normal is 14 points. Does the spell supply 7 points of curing, or does it supply enough to fulfill the spell text (ie all damage cured)?

Sure, curing all fulfills the spell text, but that should be overridden by the warforged text. You can't fulfill both because they are mutually exclusive. Since the warforged text overrules, say, cure light wounds, why wouldn't it do the same for restoration?

What is the 'normal effect' of restoration when a character has 4000 points of ability damage? Is it not 'cures 4000 points of ability damage'? Whatever you decide the normal effect is, a warforged gets half of that. Your argument, however, clearly is that the normal effect is not a numerical value (because any numerical value is easily adjudicated as half).

 

[Hypersmurf]

What is the 'normal effect' of restoration when a character has 4000 points of ability damage? Is it not 'cures 4000 points of ability damage'?

No, the normal effect is 'cures all temporary ability damage'. That the ability damage suffered by the target happens to be 4000 is irrelevant.

Just like the normal effect of Cure Light Wounds is 'cures 1d8+X points of damage'. Casting it on someone who hasn't taken any damage doesn't change the fact that that's the normal effect.

-Hyp.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

So, i2k, if you're right, how do you solve the infinite Restoration problem?

 

[Starglim]

No, the normal effect is 'cures all temporary ability damage'. That the ability damage suffered by the target happens to be 4000 is irrelevant.

Just like the normal effect of Cure Light Wounds is 'cures 1d8+X points of damage'. Casting it on someone who hasn't taken any damage doesn't change the fact that that's the normal effect.

-Hyp.

Thus, the effect on warforged is "cures half of all temporary ability damage".

I think the idea of a Restoration curing x points of damage is a distraction. The spell has a normal effect. A warforged gains half of the normal effect. A simple substitution of terms produces the above valid rule, so no further agonising about infinite numbers is required.

In the case of Heal, "half of ends the condition of temporary ability damage" is meaningless. A creature either has ability damage or it doesn't. By strict interpretation, you'd round the half-ending of the condition down to no ending of the condition, but it's a higher-level spell so it should not have less curative effect than Restoration.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Yeah, what Starglim said. You can take half of 'all'. You cannot take half of 'ends the ability damaged' condition.

So, i2k, if you're right, how do you solve the infinite Restoration problem?

There is no infinite restoration problem. There's no such possibility of an infinite ability score.