D&D 5E The Warlord shouldn't be a class... change my mind!

[Garthanos]

True but there's only so much you can do. I think a fighting style that aids every round that is balanced against existing fighting styles is probably not going to have a big enough impact to be felt.

Fighting style are not very high impact in 5e. So there is cross purposes I agree. TWF seems to be potentially getting your strength once more per turn? So allowing a mental attribute bonus on the first and follow up attack (could be analogous), but now that I think of it since the TWF is forgoing some defense. I think only the first following attack against the same enemy gets the benefit.

The other thing it would do is interact with the Purple Dragon's Knights ability to give out temp hp to allies with it's second wind. It would do a considerable amount to improve that particular subclass as it would enable it to set up a nova strike round at an early level.

It would combine well with my scan for opportunities (skilled superiority) where the fighter can forgo an extra attack to gain a superiority die which could make the rallying into a bit less once in a while. You arent just inspiring fortitude but bolstering performance.

Heroic exertions that let you accept damage for a bonus to skill use? and allow that to eat through temporary hit points was also a related idea

 

[Don Durito]

Leader Fighting Style: If an ally has temp hp you have granted them - then they may add a bonus to their damage rolls equal to your Intelligence or Charisma modifier.

Just coming back I'd probably revise this like so.

Leader Fighting Style: If an ally has temp hp you have granted them - then they may add a bonus to their damage rolls equal to your Intelligence or Charisma modifier.

In addition the when score a critical hit on an attack rol, or reduce an enemy to 0hp, all allies within 10ft of you gain a number of temporary HP equal to your proficiency bonus. This increases to 20ft at level 5, 30 ft at level 10 and 60ft at level 15.

This way it's not relying specifically on feats or subclass features just to activate.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Just coming back I'd probably revise this like so.

Leader Fighting Style: If an ally has temp hp you have granted them - then they may add a bonus to their damage rolls equal to your Intelligence or Charisma modifier.

In addition the when score a critical hit on an attack rol, or reduce an enemy to 0hp, all allies within 10ft of you gain a number of temporary HP equal to your proficiency bonus. This increases to 20ft at level 5, 30 ft at level 10 and 60ft at level 15.

This way it's not relying specifically on feats or subclass features just to activate.

Why rely on temp hp, though? Why not simply add Cha or Int to an ally’s damage when you Take the Attack or Help action in combat.

“When you take the Attack of Help actions on your turn, you may choose 1 ally to gain a bonus to damage rolls equal to your Charisma or Intelligence modifier until the end of their next turn.”

This seems more in line with other Fighting Styles in terms of power, and is quite simple. It also combines well with Commander’s Strike, since you can use it to give an ally an extra Attack with the bonus. Also, you could perhaps also add a Manuver that lets you Help as a replacement for an attack as part of the attack action, adding your superiority die to the attack or ability check, and this FS would combine well with that.

 

[Don Durito]

Why rely on temp hp, though? Why not simply add Cha or Int to an ally’s damage when you Take the Attack or Help action in combat.

“When you take the Attack of Help actions on your turn, you may choose 1 ally to gain a bonus to damage rolls equal to your Charisma or Intelligence modifier until the end of their next turn.”

This seems more in line with other Fighting Styles in terms of power, and is quite simple. It also combines well with Commander’s Strike, since you can use it to give an ally an extra Attack with the bonus. Also, you could perhaps also add a Manuver that lets you Help as a replacement for an attack as part of the attack action, adding your superiority die to the attack or ability check, and this FS would combine well with that.

Partly because it synergises two aspects of the Warlord into one, healing and buffing. It also means the Fighter player is giving something to the other player that they have to write down on their character sheet (the more I think about it the more I'm think the extra damage should be a die roll not a static buff - that's mostly how it's done in 5E and it means the number players have to add to damage rolls doesn't keep changing). My experience is that with static buffs the Warlord player in 4E often had to be constantly reminding people to add the damage they were giving them.

My experience is that players remember temp hp, because it's written down and tracked like other hps. Therefore if they associate a buff with temp hp they only have one thing to remember (I still have temp hp - then I get to roll an extra d6 - and it keeps things simple - but it allows the Fighter player to feel more like a Warlord because they're contributing from two directions rather than just one.)

Plus, as I said earlier - it basically improves a bunch of existing warlord style Fighter features that are too weak.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I think the fighter could have had more Variant Features in the last UA.

Variant: Bolstering Gambit
(replaces Second Wind)

As a bonus action on your turn, you can choose up to three creatures within 60 feet of you that are allied with you. Each one regains hit points equal to your Charisma modifier + half your fighter level, provided that the creature can see or hear you.

Once you use this feature, you must finish a short or long rest before you can use it again.

Variant: Battle Surge
(Replaces Action Surge)
Starting at 2nd level, your group can push beyond its normal limits for a moment. Choose up to three creatures within 60 feet of you that are allied with you. Each one can use its reaction to move half their speed without provoking attacks of opportunity.

Once you use this feature, you must finish a short or long rest before you can use it again. Starting at 17th level, you can use it twice before a rest, but only once on the same turn.

Variant: Shared Assault
(Enhances Extra Attack)

Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. You can forgo one of your attack on your turn to allow create an opening for your allies. Choose one ally within 30 feet that can hear or see you. This ally can make an extra attack on its next turn. The attack is waster if it isnt used on the ally's next turn.

The number of attacks increases to three when you reach 11th level in this class and to four when you reach 20th level in this class. At 11th level, you can forgo one attack to grant an ally within 30 feet that can hear or see you advantage on its next attack roll until the end of its next turn.

Unbreakable Bond
(Replaces Indomitable)

Beginning at 9th level, you can use your reaction to allow an ally within 30 feet that can hear or see you to reroll a saving throw that it fails. If it chooses do so, it must use the new roll, and you can't use this feature again until you finish a long rest.

You can use this feature twice between long rests starting at 13th level and three times between long rests starting at 17th level.

Shared Assult is too powerful - it gives all fighters a Battlemaster ability for free. It would have to be a "replaces" ability - your warlord can grant an extra attack to allies but they do not get it themselves.

Otherwise the idea is excellent (if very like the PDK*) - but I doubt the Fighter has enough replaceable abilities to really satisfy warlord fans.

Which I think is the real problem - however you do Warlord it won't be identical to the 4e warlord, because the rules are different. ALL classes are different in 5e than they where in earlier editions, but averaged across multiple editions there is a clearer idea of what the core essence of the class is compared to something from one edition only. But even then there where a lot of complaints, and (IMO) they got the sorcerer wrong.

Hence the objection to the 3PP versions. An "official" version might be different to that, but won't be "better" - it will still fail to satisfy a significant chunk of the warlord fans who have been asking for it.




* You could used the proposed "Superior Technique" Fighting Style to give a PDK Commander's Strike or Rally.

 

[Garthanos]

Also, you could perhaps also add a Manuver that lets you Help as a replacement for an attack as part of the attack action, adding your superiority die to the attack or ability check, and this FS would combine well with that.

I like upgrading help action a lot... that is on cool stuff list in general.

One thing I think of Warlords as doing is being the team coordinator this aspect is the reason its important that abilities exist which help everybody is important

As team coordinator you might actually enhance others help actions too. (martial practices or techniques allowing communication in the chaos of battle allow help at range for instance)

 

[Krachek]

Just coming back I'd probably revise this like so.

Leader Fighting Style: If an ally has temp hp you have granted them - then they may add a bonus to their damage rolls equal to your Intelligence or Charisma modifier.

In addition the when score a critical hit on an attack rol, or reduce an enemy to 0hp, all allies within 10ft of you gain a number of temporary HP equal to your proficiency bonus. This increases to 20ft at level 5, 30 ft at level 10 and 60ft at level 15.

This way it's not relying specifically on feats or subclass features just to activate.

It’s a typical 4ed power. Micro bonus, multiple condition, affect multiple creatures.
add such power to all classes and we will go back to 45 minutes turn.

 

[ChaosOS]

Warlord definitely benefited from the detailed rules of 4e, and even more importantly helped with how rigid movement was baseline. 5e lets you pivot around someone freely, and lets you split up movement. As a tradeoff, 5e nuked flanking. This works well for basic "combat ranges" style play, where the only relevant question is "are you in this clump or not", but loses a lot of the nuance of melee footwork. As such, I absolutely see why the Warlord is harder to implement in 5e.

Honestly, with the new manuevers in the alternate class features UA, Warlord isn't that far away for Battlemasters. Being able to have a unique skill booster to contribute to skill checks helps cover the warlord fantasy of being smarter/wiser/more charismatic than your typical fighter.

 

[Pauln6]

Warlord definitely benefited from the detailed rules of 4e, and even more importantly helped with how rigid movement was baseline. 5e lets you pivot around someone freely, and lets you split up movement. As a tradeoff, 5e nuked flanking. This works well for basic "combat ranges" style play, where the only relevant question is "are you in this clump or not", but loses a lot of the nuance of melee footwork. As such, I absolutely see why the Warlord is harder to implement in 5e.

Honestly, with the new manuevers in the alternate class features UA, Warlord isn't that far away for Battlemasters. Being able to have a unique skill booster to contribute to skill checks helps cover the warlord fantasy of being smarter/wiser/more charismatic than your typical fighter.

The problem with UA as is, would be that any fighter, whether a noble warrior or dumb brute could train the skill boosting Manoeuvres when resting up in a town for a night. It becomes entirely mechanical instead of thematic.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

One thing I think of Warlords as doing is being the team coordinator this aspect is the reason its important that abilities exist which help everybody is important

Is it just be, or does the idea that a band of heroes needs a "team coordinator" sound more like an Acquisitions Inc. style spoof of modern corporate culture than a serious part of the game?

I'm a mightily Warrior!
I'm a cunning Wizard!
I'm a... er.. Team Coordinator!