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5E The Warlord shouldn't be a class... change my mind!

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Lets see . . .
Most basic damage cantrip. No riders that might cause confusion: Fire Bolt
Damage at level 11: 3d10, or 17ish.
Extra attack with a longbow (closest equivalent). Assume stat at 20 but not magic or other bonuses.
Damage at level 11: 2d8+10, or 19ish.

So it looks like we're both wrong. Extra attack at level 11 doesn't stay level with cantrip damage. It surpasses it.
Sure, it surpasses it, but barely, and without EA, it would fall dramatically behind.

but that is the intended trade off. Higher At Will damage vs versatility and at Will magical damage.
 

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The reason that I mentioned Extra Attack at level 11 is that that would be where it would stay level with cantrip damage.
Yeah, that sounded more reasonable.

Riders are generally worth around 1 or two points of damage per die, if you compare cantrips to each other. In terms of having multiple different riders to choose from, bear in mind that most warrior-types carry more different weapons than most casters have attack cantrips.
But the choice of weapon doesn't make much of a difference. There's the odd case where you might want bludgeoning rather than piercing or something. It'd be cool if it did, if choice of weapons & techniques let you throw around interesting options.

So it looks like we're both wrong. Extra attack at level 11 doesn't stay level with cantrip damage. It surpasses it.
Better'n I expected. Assume an 18 DEX and looks like it'd come out just right.
 

But the choice of weapon doesn't make much of a difference. There's the odd case where you might want bludgeoning rather than piercing or something. It'd be cool if it did, if choice of weapons & techniques let you throw around interesting options.
Melee vs Ranged weapons, however, do make a difference.
 


It makes a difference to the fighter, but, to casters? Virtually all combat cantrips are ranged. There are only a couple that are melee. And, as an added bonus, many of the ranged cantrips can be used in melee without penalty, something fighters with ranged weapons cannot do.
Different cantrips have different riders however.
 


Melee vs Ranged weapons, however, do make a difference.
A difference comparable to that between a cantrip that takes an attack roll vs one that calls for a DEX save. Not comparable to the different riders on cantrips, which, as you note, "cost" a point or two of damage, in general.
That's true, and important, but it doesn't change that cantrips have some flexible use parameters that ranged weapons need a feat to match. I'm not sure how important that is, but there you go
I suspect it's given very little weight in 5e design.
 




moving somebody 10 feet if no flanking rules are in place....
There's a simplified flanking rule in 5e - it's called Pack Tactics, lotsa monsters have it. The rogue sorta does, too, as an SA-qualifier.

Anyway, something like "ally can shift 2" in 4e, would translate to something like "your ally can move up to 10', disengaging for free if adjacent to an enemy, and, if he ends that movement adjacent to an enemy to which another ally of his is adjacent, both gain combat advantage on their next attack on that enemy made before it moves."
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
There's a simplified flanking rule in 5e - it's called Pack Tactics, lotsa monsters have it. The rogue sorta does, too, as an SA-qualifier.

Anyway, something like "ally can shift 2" in 4e, would translate to something like "your ally can move up to 10', disengaging for free if adjacent to an enemy, and, if he ends that movement adjacent to an enemy to which another ally of his is adjacent, both gain combat advantage on their next attack on that enemy made before it moves."
so elegant.
 






Aebir-Toril

Creator of the Elfgrinder Mech
Y'don't really wanna go there, do ya?Under the 5e paradigm of natural language accessibility? Maybe. Under the paradigm of formal keywords & exception-based-design? Certainly.
I hope you know that I was making a joke. I had jokingly wondered, upthread, whether this thread could reach 50 pages. 🙃

But, on the topic of hit points, and why they represent meat...
 

I hope you know that I was making a joke.
It seemed likely.

But, y'know, remember that if a Warlord thread goes really long, that's proof* that the Warlord class is too controversial ever to see print.

So be careful what you wish for.








* Just like if it peters out and drops off the front page, that's proof there's not enough interest in the class for it ever to see print. (Also anything between the two, likewise, for reasons.)
 

Aebir-Toril

Creator of the Elfgrinder Mech
It seemed likely.

But, y'know, remember that if a Warlord thread goes really long, that's proof* that the Warlord class is too controversial ever to see print.

So be careful what you wish for.








* Just like if it peters out and drops off the front page, that's proof there's not enough interest in the class for it ever to see print. (Also anything between the two, likewise, for reasons.)
Hey! I disagree with both of those assertions, with extreme prejudice, mind you!
 

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