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5E The Warlord shouldn't be a class... change my mind!


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Aebir-Toril

J.C. Denton probably
Proof that Warlord fans can't agree on anything, so there should never be a warlord.
No, it is proof that there should be a Warlord, because the class is an excellent implementation of an idea that would appeal to many, certainly more than the Artificer appeals to.

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Aebir-Toril

J.C. Denton probably
In an honest effort to convince @Urriak Uruk, I point simply to the relative desire for a Warlord when compared to the desire for an Artificer. Yes, a Warlord is more divisive, but I doubt that people will quit the game due to the implementation of an additional class.
 

Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
Just a thought, way out in left field. What about designing Warlord subclasses for more than one existing class instead of building a whole new cl;ass with multiple subclasses? You have a lot less design space, but there's also a lot less to balance. I know this won't appeal to the serious fans who want the whole enchilada, but it's very doable.
 

Aebir-Toril

J.C. Denton probably
Just a thought, way out in left field. What about designing Warlord subclasses for more than one existing class instead of building a whole new cl;ass with multiple subclasses? You have a lot less design space, but there's also a lot less to balance. I know this won't appeal to the serious fans who want the whole enchilada, but it's very doable.
So, like adding support-Warlord elements to multiple classes in the form of subclass features? Eh, it's a good idea, but not one that I'd support unless there was a bit more of a clear structure as to what the implementation would be.
 

Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
The WL conversation tends to be about three brands of WL that roughly conform to martial, half martial and full support. I'd probably build a subclass each on the Fighter, Paladin, and Cleric platforms, although elements of the current build on the rogue chassis would work in the middle there too. Generally, that would equal 1/3 WL, 1/2 WL and full WL if we wanted to steal some terminology from spell casting, If you built the 1/3 WL first, you could just add to it for the 1/2 WL and add some more to the full WL. Tie the three together with some overlapping abilities, whether identical or just similar and just add some juice at each step. That's the broad strokes of a very fresh idea anyway.
 


Aebir-Toril

J.C. Denton probably
The WL conversation tends to be about three brands of WL that roughly conform to martial, half martial and full support. I'd probably build a subclass each on the Fighter, Paladin, and Cleric platforms, although elements of the current build on the rogue chassis would work in the middle there too. Generally, that would equal 1/3 WL, 1/2 WL and full WL if we wanted to steal some terminology from spell casting, If you built the 1/3 WL first, you could just add to it for the 1/2 WL and add some more to the full WL. Tie the three together with some overlapping abilities, whether identical or just similar and just add some juice at each step. That's the broad strokes of a very fresh idea anyway.
I like it, actually, but it might be difficult to implement the essential abilities of a Warlord in a way that doesn't make certain subclasses overpowered. Paladin could be done easily, as it is already a convention that Paladins can buff their allies. Cleric would work well, as would Fighter, but not in a way that's quite as clean. My main problem with tying the class to a Cleric is the religious connotation that would be tacked on to the class. Otherwise, I quite like the idea.
 

Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
@ Tony Vargas - Are you suggesting I'm not serious?! :unsure: I assure you sir, I am in deadly earnest. I always treat blue sky conversations about new rules with the utmost probity and solemnity. :p
 

Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
I like it, actually, but it might be difficult to implement the essential abilities of a Warlord in a way that doesn't make certain subclasses overpowered. Paladin could be done easily, as it is already a convention that Paladins can buff their allies. Cleric would work well, as would Fighter, but not in a way that's quite as clean. My main problem with tying the class to a Cleric is the religious connotation that would be tacked on to the class. Otherwise, I quite like the idea.
The Cleric would probably need more of a reskin to really feel right, sure, but if you presented all three as a package, linked by fluff, it might be easier to swallow. Both the Paladin and the Cleric have that connotation though, so it might be easier to play it up rather than down. I'm not married to the WL fluff at all, so I'm open to anything really.
 

Aebir-Toril

J.C. Denton probably
The Cleric would probably need more of a reskin to really feel right, sure, but if you presented all three as a package, linked by fluff, it might be easier to swallow. Both the Paladin and the Cleric have that connotation though, so it might be easier to play it up rather than down. I'm not married to the WL fluff at all, so I'm open to anything really.
I would still prefer a full Warlord, but having Warlord-like subclasses would be a nice nod to 4E, especially given how divisive the Warlord is.
 

Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
I didn't suggest it as a replacement really. It seemed like a more limited palette on which to experiment with some mechanics and ideas before attempting the masterpiece.
 


Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
Ooh, that's a great idea, given proper implementation.
Sometimes it's more useful to try and fit what you want into a small design space as the focus is then on what is most important. That's why I'd start with the fighter - you really only have the design space of superiority dice to work with, so it's pretty easy to keep bloat in check.
 

Aebir-Toril

J.C. Denton probably
Sometimes it's more useful to try and fit what you want into a small design space as the focus is then on what is most important. That's why I'd start with the fighter - you really only have the design space of superiority dice to work with, so it's pretty easy to keep bloat in check.
Given this, I might try to develop some Warlord subclasses on my own.
 



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