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5E The Warlord shouldn't be a class... change my mind!

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
If you have a nuanced resource to cost with, like Ki for example, there's nothing wrong with paying attention to balancing costs. The more abilities you have the more nuanced you need to be too.
Admittedly I have been thinking of the Fighter Battlemaster foundation even more.
 

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Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
Having one ability a little OP or UP isn't a big deal, but if you are constantly shrugging your shoulders and saying "meh, doesn't matter" with every ability the class will probably end up being unbalanced enough to be an issue. Too much balancing is better than not enough.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Having one ability a little OP or UP isn't a big deal, but if you are constantly shrugging your shoulders and saying "meh, doesn't matter" with every ability the class will probably end up being unbalanced enough to be an issue. Too much balancing is better than not enough.
Its possible to "generally agree" but I think affecting allies instead of self is more about role versatility instead of power.
 


Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
Its possible to "generally agree" but I think affecting allies instead of self is more about role versatility instead of power.
I do actually generally agree with you. However, I also think it's important to consider what exactly the ability is doing as they are assuredly not all created equal. Mostly there probably isn't a need for additional cost beyond what the equivalent target self ability might cost, in terms of action economy or other resources, but that isn't the same thing as saying that no target ally ability should cost extra, that was my main point.
 


Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Considering what upper management did to them, the Barbarian, Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, and Sorcerer should have all gone on strike - but they were probably afraid of being black-balled and replaced by a temp, like the Warlord was.
Several temps in succession really...
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Considering what upper management did to them, the Barbarian, Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, and Sorcerer should have all gone on strike - but they were probably afraid of being black-balled and replaced by a temp, like the Warlord was.
What would the maneuver look like that let the battlemast eat a rogue?
 

What would the maneuver look like that let the battlemast eat a rogue?
Eat?

Scarf
When you hit a creature with a grapple attempt, you can expend one superiority die to attempt to swallow them whole. You add the superiority die to the attack's damage roll, and the target must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, it is removed from play & you are encumbered, until it succeeds in escaping the grapple (you do not need to keep a hand free to maintain the grapple).
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Eat?

Scarf
When you hit a creature with a grapple attempt, you can expend one superiority die to attempt to swallow them whole. You add the superiority die to the attack's damage roll, and the target must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, it is removed from play & you are encumbered, until it succeeds in escaping the grapple (you do not need to keep a hand free to maintain the grapple).
In case you think you are unpredictable I was expecting a literalistic gastronomic silliness.
 

In case you think you are unpredictable I was expecting a literalistic gastronomic silliness.
I honestly thought it was a typo, but couldn't tell what it shouldn't have been.

of course, I was trying to be silly, and didn't expect that to surprise anyone. ;)


But, seriously, what'd you actually mean be 'eat...?'
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
But, seriously, what'd you actually mean be 'eat...?'
Consume and incorporate into the body of the fighter (ie absorb that puppy and make part of you)

In effect Rogue might not be needed if the dex fighter with the right maneuvers can do the trick
 
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In effect Rogue might not be needed if the dex fighter with the right maneuvers can do the trick
Oh, OK, like...

Sneak Attack
When you would have advantage on the attack roll, you can use your action to strike subtly and exploit the foe’s distraction. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon, and you don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll. If the attack hits, you can roll a CS die and add the result to the damage dealt - you roll an additional die of the same type for each Extra Attack you would normally gain when taking the attack action.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Oh, OK, like...

Sneak Attack
When you would have advantage on the attack roll, you can use your action to strike subtly and exploit the foe’s distraction. The attack must use a finesse or a ranged weapon, and you don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll. If the attack hits, you can roll a CS die and add the result to the damage dealt - you roll an additional die of the same type for each Extra Attack you would normally gain when taking the attack action.
Assuming as a maneuver you are saying this always takes all of your attacks of an attack action.
 


Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Yep, it's its own action, not an attack action, so locks out Extra Attack.

I figure the CS dice get bigger, so you don't need as many added dice.
As a maneuver it becomes one of many in the battlemasters flexible moves the class can do trips and hamstrings and others but as a class feature? its instead of something else (perhaps in a subclass?)

A rogue has enough stylistic differences shrug.
 

As a maneuver it becomes one of many in the battlemasters flexible moves the class can do trips and hamstrings and others
That's the idea, just another trick in the repertoire - to take advantage of fleeting opportunities.

as a class feature? its instead of something else (perhaps in a subclass?)
In a swashbuckler type sub-class:

Cunning Action
Starting at 3nd level, you can use quick thinking and agility, instead of pushing yourself beyond normal limits, to allow you to move and act quickly. When you use your Action Surge feature to take the Dash, Disengage, or Hide action, you do not expend that ability. You must have an Action Surge available to use this feature, and can still use Action Surge only once on the same turn.

Doesn't use up your bonus action, but can become unavailable when you use Action Surge for something else.
 
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Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
That's the idea, just another trick in the repertoire - to take advantage of fleeting opportunities.

In a swashbuckler type sub-class:

Cunning Action
Starting at 3nd level, you can use quick thinking and agility, instead of pushing yourself beyond normal limits, to allow you to move and act quickly. When you use your Action Surge feature to take the Dash, Disengage, or Hide action, you do not expend that ability. You must have an Action Surge available to use this feature, and can still use Action Surge only once on the same turn.

Doesn't use up your bonus action, but can become unavailable when you use Action Surge for something else.
Nods.
So your subclass then uses 1 and less 2 and no 3 to convert attacks to maneuvers?
1) Perceptiveness and Planning (Scan for Openings)
2) Extraordinary Physicality. (Straining)
3) Courage. (Risk Trade Off)
 


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