D&D 5E The Warlord shouldn't be a class... change my mind!

[Cap'n Kobold]

The warlord does need something at level 11 to keep pace with other classes. All classes get something at levels 5 and 11 to help with combat. For a warlord I'd definitely give them extra attack at level 5. Level 11 a class gets either something like a damage bonus (improved divine smite, extra attack) or a defensive buff (like the barbarian and, I think, the monk gets though I can't recall what they're called).

At level 5 you could grant the ability to make an attack in addition to using a maneuver that would usually take their action (which might involve also making an attack).

Have some features like Help action at range that can be substituted for an attack, so the class can always contribute without having to make an attack. (Or make that specific to 'lazylord'/'princess' build.)

At level 11 allow the warlord to use two maneuvers as their action.

(I'm using maneuver here as an interim name for a marshal ability, whether at-will, or resource-spend.)

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The warlord does need something at level 11 to keep pace with other classes. All classes get something at levels 5 and 11 to help with combat. For a warlord I'd definitely give them extra attack at level 5. Level 11 a class gets either something like a damage bonus (improved divine smite, extra attack) or a defensive buff (like the barbarian and, I think, the monk gets though I can't recall what they're called).

For the warlord, I'd probably make level 11 a subclass ability that provides a different ability dependent on the subclass's general philosophy around how it works as a warlord or make it a class ability but give options in a way similar to the hunter ranger.

Makes sense.
Maybe level 11 is a strong group buff that normally keys off of either making or granting attacks? My concept is already that the warlord can trade an attack as part of the attack action to Help or Grant An Attack, both with some sort of bonus. So, when they use the attack action, at level 11 and up, they also grant a group buff?

 

[Tony Vargas]

If having an additional attack at say, level 11 to keep pace with cantrip damage

Keeping pace with cantrip damage is an odd way to put it. Cantrips stay behind the single-target at-will DPR of half and non-casters to leave room for the rest-recharge resources they gain as spells.

you could always just have some of the at-will maneuvers that the class can pick from grant something similar.

Like Warlocks' Eldritch Blast?
That would be better than hardwiring Extra Attack to the base class. (For that matter, even at lower level, a manuever that attacked a second target wouldn't be out of line.)

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Keeping pace with cantrip damage is an odd way to put it. Cantrips stay behind the single-target at-will DPR of half and non-casters to leave room for the rest-recharge resources they gain as spells.

Indeed. You have fairly unequivocally stated that you find the idea of the marshal having an extra attack as unacceptable since it would draw class power away from the other options.

Presumably in the same way that having access to cantrips that scale with level draws power away from classes without extra attack.

Putting the extra attack at 11th level brings it fairly closely in line with a baseline cantrip in terms of individual at-will damage contribution.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Presumably in the same way that having access to cantrips that scale with level draws power away from classes without extra attack.

Clearly to a different degree, since the classes with Cantrips as their scaling baseline at-will DPR are full casters, while those with even one Extra Attack are 1/2 or 1/3rd casters.

That is, the point of Extra Attack isn't to keep up with cantrips, but to stay ahead of them, and the price for that is reduced rest-recharge resources.

Putting the extra attack at 11th level brings it fairly closely in line with a baseline cantrip in terms of individual at-will damage contribution.

That does sound better than the usual 5th.

 

[Garthanos]

That does sound better than the usual 5th.

Keeps it martial though Arthur wont be spanking Lancelot directly LOL

 

[Azzy]

Keeps it martial though Arthur wont be spanking Lancelot directly LOL

Sounds kinky. Wonder what Guenivere thinks.

 

[Garthanos]

Sounds kinky. Wonder what Guenivere thinks.

Not sure sometimes that might be her idea kaching though the stories were fraught with variations.

TBH the lancelot story seems almost like it was somewhat cribbed from the historical Flavius Belisarius from the 500s (which is a well documented one actually)

 

[Tony Vargas]

Keeps it martial though Arthur wont be spanking Lancelot directly LOL

... another thought on adapting Extra Attack...

One is, a maneuver that let you attack more than once, but didn't stack damage the way Extra Attack does. Say, make two attacks, vs one or two targets. Damage is 1 weapon die per hit, + damage modifiers, once.

The other is an alternate Extra Attack that doesn't go to single-target DPR, directly. Like, here's the normal Extra Attack:

Beginning at 5th Level, you can Attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on Your Turn.

Simple, and the best thing to do with it will almost always be to focus fire by attacking the same enemy twice per round until it drops.

A variant Extra Attack might go something like: Whenever you take the Attack action on Your Turn, you can make a second attack against a different target, or give an ally advantage on their next attack against your first target.

While a maneuver might go: "When you use Variant Extra Attack to give an ally advantage against an enemy you attacked, that ally can use his Reaction to attack that enemy, immediately." or "When you use Variant Extra Attack to give an ally advantage against an enemy you attacked, that ally gains temporary hit points if his next attack hits." etc...


...meh... it's a thought, not sure it has much potential.

 

[Garthanos]

... another thought on adapting Extra Attack...

One is, a maneuver that let you attack more than once, but didn't stack damage the way Extra Attack does. Say, make two attacks, vs one or two targets. Damage is 1 weapon die per hit, + damage modifiers, once.

The other is an alternate Extra Attack that doesn't go to single-target DPR, directly. Like, here's the normal Extra Attack: Simple, and the best thing to do with it will almost always be to focus fire by attacking the same enemy twice per round until it drops.

A variant Extra Attack might go something like: Whenever you take the Attack action on Your Turn, you can make a second attack against a different target, or give an ally advantage on their next attack against your first target.

While a maneuver might go: "When you use Variant Extra Attack to give an ally advantage against an enemy you attacked, that ally can use his Reaction to attack that enemy, immediately." or "When you use Variant Extra Attack to give an ally advantage against an enemy you attacked, that ally gains temporary hit points if his next attack hits." etc...


...meh... it's a thought, not sure it has much potential.

I considered Granted attacks not providing attribute bonuses.... or providing only bonuses based on weapon type and attribute of the Warlord not the target.