D&D 5E The Warrior

[Quickleaf]

I've been overhauling my redesign to slim it down to something more in the ballpark of 8-10 pages (which is about on par for clerics, wizards, and paladins in the PHB).

One of my dilemmas was the amount of space some of the talents were taking up – they were just too involved and wordy. For example, I had several wordy Archery talents because I was trying to avoid making subclasses based on particular fighting styles. It's possible, however, that "Archer" would be an exception to that rule.

In reexamining the subclasses I'm using, I realized some things...

[SECTION]Old Subclasses:
Borderlands Guard
Cavalier
Destined Hero
Monster Slayer
Swashbuckler
Veteran
Warlord
Weapon Master[/SECTION]

First, "Weapon Master" is redundant to what the fighter is already described as in the PHB (and the concept flies in the face of my goal to give more narrative identity to the subclasses).

Second, "Swashbuckler" is already a roguish archetype presented in Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide, so at the very least that needs a name change, if not a conceptual change.

So I went back to AD&D2e's kits to see if there were obvious concepts I was missing...Gladiators, Mercenaries, that sort of thing.

[SECTION]List of Warrior Kits (non race-specific / archetypes that reappear in books)
Amazon
Barbarian
Beast-Rider
Berserker
Cavalier
Gladiator / Pit Fighter (CBoHumanoids) / Complete Gladiator's Handbook
Myrmidon / Mercenary (CBoHumanoids) / Mercenary (CBoGnomes&Halflings)
Noble Warrior
Peasant Hero
Pirate/Outlaw
Samurai
Savage
Swashbuckler
Wilderness Warrior
Dwarf Warrior / Elf Warrior / Halfling Fighter = Sharpshooter / Archer[/SECTION]

Some don't fit our modern sensibilities. "Amazons" are skilled women warriors, not a subclass. Likewise "Savage" is a politically loaded term – and if it's going to appear at all, would fit the Barbarian class better. Not to mention Beast-Riders and Berserkers also are a better fit for the Barbarian class. Noble Warrior is a fighter with the Noble background, Peasant Hero is a fighter with the Folk Hero background, and any PC can be a Pirate by taking the Sailor Pirate variant background. It's questionable whether "Samurai" merits inclusion since it could be argued to be a fighter with the Noble Knight variant background, but if it were to be included probably in some kind of Oriental Adventures / Rokugan supplement is where it belongs...I could be wrong.

So what does that leave?
Cavalier is one with a lot of D&D history that made this list of kits, so confirmation for me to include it.
Gladiator seems to be a major concept that I'd previously left out, so I'll look at including that.
Likewise Myrmidon/Mercenary are similar concepts that appear in the "Complete" books, though may be sufficiently covered by my Veteran subclass; I'll have a look, but suspect at most I'll be adapting one trait from the kit, if anything.
Wilderness Warrior is close to my Borderlands Guard concept, and I think my concept has a stronger narrative draw, so at most I may incorporate a trait from that kit, if anything.
Sharpshooter/Archer also has significant presence, and was one of the subclasses that appeared in the playtest...IIRC Mearls said it lacked popularity of other subclasses. But there may be room to incorporate that, I'll see.

 

[Imaculata]

I'm still very impressed with what you've done here, and I'm curious what you'll do with the Swashbuckler. As I said before, it would be neat to blend it with the Dervish prestige class a bit. If you need a new name for the Swashbuckler, why not Dervish?

 

[Quickleaf]

I'm still very impressed with what you've done here, and I'm curious what you'll do with the Swashbuckler. As I said before, it would be neat to blend it with the Dervish prestige class a bit. If you need a new name for the Swashbuckler, why not Dervish?

Thanks I'm overhauling a lot of my work, attempting to slim it down to something similar in length to the cleric or wizard in the PHB.

What I've tried to do with the subclasses is remove cultural references. While cavalier is an exception to that, since it derives from a supporter of Charles I in the English Civil War, cavalier has been part of the game for a long time & has been used to mean "horseman." For example, it could as easily refer to a mounted German knight as it could to a Japanese samurai.

Dervish has a specific connotation to whirling dervishes in Sufi Islam. Looking at how it was interpreted in the 3e prestige class, a dervish had a bit of desert flavor and then was all about fighting with two scimitars. I'm also trying to avoid creating subclasses based around specific weapon usage/style.* For example, imagine a swashbuckler like Wesley from the Princess Bride; he fought with a rapier and a free left hand.

As an aside, I also have an Al-Qadim conversion project that I've fallen behind with where I created a Path of the Dervish subclass for barbarians. And it fits *really* well there, letting "Rage" be reinterpreted as a mystical fervor-inspired battle dance.

*EDIT: The one exception may be an Archer. I'm trying to compress a bunch of archery talents into a shorter form, but it may not be possible to get them as compressed as I want; if so, that may be a sign there is enough there to create an Archer subclass. If I did go that way, I'd want to read up on the culture of Archers historically to give the subclass some narrative for a player to hang their imagination on... for example, I might look at Central Asian tribes (prodigiously skilled archers) and realize that the barbarian class doesn't really support such a ranged weapon-based character... so I might look to those tribes for inspiration... or I might look to the "archery tournament" trope often used in Robin Hood for inspiration.

 

[Istbor]

I have to say I am very impressed with and really enjoy what you have put together so far.

This both seems to make the fighter feel more its own thing, and satisfies the part of me that loves character creation. Pouring over options to set up your character to match the concept you are after. This would be something I would love to playtest with.

Interesting take on the Dervish by the way. "Dancing" instead of "Raging" does make a lot of sense. My interest is piqued. You don't happen to have a link to this somewhere? Even like DMs Guild where one could purchase it?

 

[Quickleaf]

I have to say I am very impressed with and really enjoy what you have put together so far.

This both seems to make the fighter feel more its own thing, and satisfies the part of me that loves character creation. Pouring over options to set up your character to match the concept you are after. This would be something I would love to playtest with.

I think the key is to provide *some* options without going totally overboard. My first draft was in excess of 30 pages. For one class! Great for players who love pouring over options or those wanting a 4e-style fighter, but not so great for people preferring a more basic fighter.

One thing I've been contemplating is how to take my basic design conceit for several "active talents" (aka powers) – You can sacrifice Extra Attacks to boost a single attack with increased damage dice + a special effect – and turn that into an improvisational tool that players & DMs can have fun with, without having to codify active talents V, W, X, Y, and Z.

Interesting take on the Dervish by the way. "Dancing" instead of "Raging" does make a lot of sense. My interest is piqued. You don't happen to have a link to this somewhere? Even like DMs Guild where one could purchase it?

It's part of an Al-Qadim playtest document myself and others are working on. If you'd like, PM me and I'll send you a GoogleDrive link to the PDF.

 

[Eubani]

Don't forget the main rule of fighter design 101

 

[Lost Soul]

General Talents
The following talents have no requirements.

Accuracy (passive)
Gain a +1 bonus to hit with weapon attacks.

Fortitude (passive)
Gain +5 hit points. You may take this talent multiple times.

Iron Resolve (active)
As a reaction, you can add your proficiency bonus to a saving throw against a threat that you are aware of. If you are already proficient in a save, this gives you a total of double your proficiency bonus to that save.

Might (passive)
Gain a +1 bonus to damage with weapon attacks. You may take this talent multiple times.

Readiness (passive)
Gain a +5 bonus to initiative checks.

Unarmored Defense (passive)
While wearing no armor, you may add your Intelligence modifier to your AC, in addition to your Dexterity modifier. You can still wield shields and benefit from Unarmored Defense.

Armor Talents
You must wear armor with the listed components as part of the suit to use these talents.

Armored Defense (passive)
Gain a +1 bonus to AC while wearing armor. It takes you half the required time to don or doff armor.

Gauntlet Expertise (passive)
While wearing gauntlets, you cannot be disarmed.

Helmet Expertise (passive)
While wearing a helmet and not surprised, any time you are struck by a critical hit, roll a d20. On a result of 10+ the blow is deflected by your helmet, and you take normal damage instead.

Archery Talents
You must be wielding a bow or crossbow in order to use archery talents.

Aimed Shot (active)
When you use the Attack action to attack a target, you can take an aimed shot to ignore half-cover and reduce three-quarters cover to being only as effective as half-cover for purposes of your aimed shot. If the target has no cover you instead gain a +2 bonus to hit. You can only take one aimed shot per round.
Recharge: You must spend one round observing a target and making no attacks.
Improved Aimed Shot: In place of two attacks, you make a shot ignoring half and three-quarters cover entirely (or gain a +3 bonus to hit), and your attack deals an extra weapon die of damage on a hit.
Master Aimed Shot: In place of three attacks, you make a shot ignoring half and three-quarters cover (or gain a +5 bonus to hit), as well as any disadvantage on your attack roll, and your attack deals two extra weapon dice of damage on a hit.

Archer’s Escape (passive)
When you use the Attack action to make a ranged attack against a target, you may Disengage as a bonus action and move 5 feet for free before or after the shot.

Hail of Arrows (active)
As an action, you fire a barrage of arrows into a 15 foot diameter circular area. Choose a number of creatures within the area equal to your proficiency modifier; those creatures must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failure they suffer damage as if struck by one of your arrows, while on a success they suffer half as much damage. You may not benefit from Extra Attack during a round in which you use Hail of Arrows.
Recharge: If handling ammunition cinematically, you must refill your quiver. If tracking ammunition, this expends a number of arrows or bolts equal to twice your proficiency modifier.

Full Draw (active)
As a bonus action you draw your bowstring to full extension. The next attack you make on your turn with the bow gains advantage to hit if firing within short range, or suffers no disadvantage when firing at long range.
Recharge: Rest your arm for a full round.

Overwatch (stance)
As an action you can enter an Overwatch stance requiring concentration. You choose whether you are watching over a specific creature or a fixed 15 foot diameter area you can see. Changing the subject of your Overwatch requires an action.
While concentrating on a specific creature, you can use your reaction if the creature moves or takes hostile action to make a number of ranged attacks against it equal to the number of attacks granted by your Extra Attack feature (minimum 1). Alternately, you can use your reaction to make a ranged attack against an enemy you can see attacking that creature.
While concentrating on an area, you may use your reaction if a creature in the area makes an attack against you or an ally, or if a creature attempts to leave the area. You make a number of ranged attacks against the creature(s) equal to the number of attacks granted by your Extra Attack feature (minimum 1).

Pinning Shot (active)
When you use the Attack action to attack a target, you pin its arm or leg with an arrow. The target must make a Constitution saving throw, and on a failure it reduces its speed to zero. At the end of its turns, the target can make a Constitution saving throw to restore its speed to normal. Alternately, the arrow or bolt can be ripped out as an action, restoring the target’s speed.
Recharge: Gain unobstructed line of sight to the target.
Improved Pinning Shot: In place of two attacks, you make a shot that deals an extra weapon die of damage on a hit. If the target succeeds its saving throw, it regains only half its speed; to regain the rest of its speed it must succeed another save. Ripping the arrow or bolt out causes the target to suffer 1d4 bleeding damage at the end of each of its turns until its wounds are bound or it regains hit points.
Master Pinning Shot: In place of three attacks, you make a shot that deals two extra weapon dice of damage on a hit. If the target fails its save it is restrained until it makes a successful save, whereupon it only suffers from halved speed; to regain the rest of its speed it must succeed another save. Ripping the arrow or bolt out causes the target to suffer 1d6 bleeding damage at the end of each of its turns until its wounds are bound or it regains hit points.

Dual Weapon Talents

Great Weapon Talents

Improvised Talents

Mount Talents

Polearm Talents

Shield Talents

Swordplay Talents

Thrown Weapon Talents

Unarmed Talents

Do not allow +1 hit & and multiple plusses to damage. They break the bounded accuracy system and wreck encounters. Pathfinder proved this by allowing multiple small stacking bonuses for fighters. Fighters are not gimped in combat.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I think the key is to provide *some* options without going totally overboard. My first draft was in excess of 30 pages. For one class! Great for players who love pouring over options or those wanting a 4e-style fighter, but not so great for people preferring a more basic fighter.

So? Don't they already have the official Champion?

 

[Quickleaf]

Do not allow +1 hit & and multiple plusses to damage. They break the bounded accuracy system and wreck encounters. Pathfinder proved this by allowing multiple small stacking bonuses for fighters. Fighters are not gimped in combat.

+1 to hit does not break bounded accuracy. I'm speaking both from experience & from looking at the Archery fighting style.

I've since streamlined my design of talents so that NONE of them are selectable multiple times. I'll share it once I've polished some more, but there are things like Might, Improved Might, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, etc. Also, damage doesn't really factor into bounded accuracy.

Fighters are certainly very effective in combat. And they unequivocally masters at it, beating out other characters most times? No. But IME they're pretty good.

While my aim to so be on par with the PHB fighter in terms of overall power, I'd prefer to err on the side of "a little too much" rather than "too weak." This is for historical reasons of the fighter having things excised from it and given to other characters without anything filling that void.

So? Don't they already have the official Champion?

Well, you're the master of zingy one-liners, aren't you?

There's a design principle called elegant simplicity. If I can say the same thing with 1/3rd as many words, in the case of a gaming supplement, that shorter version is better.

And it's obvious from what I'm doing, what you've read earlier in this thread, is *not* at all like the Champion.

 

[Lost Soul]

It does break bounded accuracy. Would you be adverse to a spellcaster being able to add +1 to save DC's in a manner similar to your warrior or being able to add to blast damage multiple times using your damage perks? I am assuming that the damage burst would be per die just as the warriors would be to each weapon die that hits. The problem with the +1 is that it stacks. The archery style is a great example. They simply should have made it so that you ignore cover. Mechanically that is what the +2 does. But then they create a feat that allows you to both ignore cover AND take -5 to hit for +10 damage. Suddenly the floating +2 for archery is overpowered because it messes with the bounded accuracy by making the penalty moot. -3 to hit with the weak monster AC is no big deal especially with spells like Bless in the game. D&D gives multiple ways to get small bonuses from magic weapons, stats, class, spells, etc. You stack too many of these together and it quickly breaks the bounded accuracy rule. Pathfinder fighters are a great example as were 4E classes of any type. When you get 3x+45 damage due to multiple stacking benefits the strength of the power is moot and only the rider effect of the 4E power is worth considering. High static bonuses ruin the fun of the game and need to be few and far between. Look at how classes are designed. Few bonuses spread over many levels in tiers. Do not ruin it by giving out frivolous +1 bonuses to fighters. They do not need the help. Give them fun options instead of boring, overpowering mathematical choices.