The weapon that got the shaft

[Shadowdweller]

I've never seen mention of Romans using pilum as spears (except for the pilum muralis which is a different weapon). Here's a quote from Ceasar's De Bello Gallico. In book 1 (paragraph 52) the romans are face to face with some gauls ...

"the enemy so suddenly and rapidly rushed forward, that there was no time for casting the javelins at them. Throwing aside [therefore] their javelins, they fought with swords hand to hand."

This is more in line with what (admittedly little) I've read, as well.

 

[blargney the second]

I'm not sure if any real life weapon is actually "better" than another. Game mechanics make it really easy to compare how useful a weapon is, but the reality is that everything hurts if you know how to use it.

The concept of a spear is pretty straightforward: push pokey bit into soft bits of your enemy. The ease of use and the simple comfort of having a really long weapon go a long way to explaining the popularity of the spear historically.

-blarg

 

[kolvar]

From my point of view, the "easy to produce and easy to train" arguments are only part of the success of the spear. As Pratchett put it: "Everything dangerous happens at the other end". A club would even be easyier to produce and train, but a peasent would have to come close to the enemy to do something against him.
About the bamboo spear: I think what was meant was this martial arts spear, that bends a lot and is wielded more like a cross between chain and blade, sometimes to pierce, sometimes to slash (as in "Hero", for example). At least the rules make sense for this kind of spear.

Wasn't the pilum the "spear" whose long metallic point bend when hitting the enemy to prevent it from being thrown back? Something like this would be quite useless in close combat.
And we have to make sure, about which period of time we are talking here. The republic army had more use of spears as a reach weapon, while Marius Asses where more into the thrown pilum thing, as far as I remember.

 

[Nifft]

Hmm, don't see where you got this idea. Why should a bamboo spear be a slashing weapon? It doesn't have a blade.

Bamboo is the shaft. For an idea on how this kind of spear works, see Musa: the Warrior.

The "bamboo spears" that you're thinking of are hardly spears at all... you can make a sharpened stick out of any straight wood, ya know. And people did. Those sharp sticks were common in Europe and Asia alike, mostly for use in bear / tiger traps and other traps (like deadfalls).

Today, we use such "spears" to roast marshmellows.

-- N

 

[Iron Whim]

Bamboo longspears are Exotic monk weapons which deal 1d6/x3 slashing, and are finessable, but cannot be set against a charge -- bamboo would shatter. Monks don't automatically get proficency, since it's a reach weapon with a high crit multiplier.

Actually, as a practitioner of the Chinese spear, lemme just step in and say that spears aren't made of bamboo in asian styles of fighting. They're either rattan or wax wood, both of which are extremely flexible, but also quite sturdy.
That being said, the chinese method of spear fighting (which would be appropriate for a monk), is quite different from the European. It employs two hands almost exclusively (the broadsword or "dao" would be the weapon to pair with a shield) and utilizes the entire weapon. The spear has two massive advantages that make it the "king of the battlefield."

 

[Iron Whim]

Bamboo longspears are Exotic monk weapons which deal 1d6/x3 slashing, and are finessable, but cannot be set against a charge -- bamboo would shatter. Monks don't automatically get proficency, since it's a reach weapon with a high crit multiplier.

Actually, as a practitioner of the Chinese spear, lemme just step in and say that spears aren't made of bamboo in asian styles of fighting. They're either rattan or wax wood, both of which are extremely flexible, but also quite sturdy.

That being said, the chinese method of spear fighting (which would be appropriate for a monk), is quite different from the European. It employs two hands almost exclusively (the broadsword or "dao" would be the weapon to pair with a shield) and utilizes the entire weapon. The spear has two massive advantages that make it the "king of the battlefield." It is a light weapon (not in the D&D sense, mind you) and has both reach and extreme speed.

Of course, from a D&D point of view, why would a monk want a weapon once he's above 4th or so level (I forget where his natural damage reaches 1d8)?

 

[Nifft]

Actually, as a practitioner of the Chinese spear, lemme just step in and say that spears aren't made of bamboo in asian styles of fighting. They're either rattan or wax wood, both of which are extremely flexible, but also quite sturdy.

Excellent! Thanks! (It looked kinda bamboo... )

Is there an official name for that weapon besides Chinese spear? (For a world where there was no China, for example?)

Of course, from a D&D point of view, why would a monk want a weapon once he's above 4th or so level (I forget where his natural damage reaches 1d8)?

Enhancement bonus, shocking burst enhancement, two-handed Power Attack, Reach, not wanting the ooze to eat your flesh -- there are lots of good reasons. (In the party that I DM, the 11th level Monk/Paladin had been using a +2 Quarterstaff, until the random treasure table gave him +4 Shocking Burst Nunchuku the session before last.)

-- N

 

[Plane Sailing]

The spear has two massive advantages that make it the "king of the battlefield." It is a light weapon (not in the D&D sense, mind you) and has both reach and extreme speed.

Interestingly the very same two issues were used by an old British exponent of fighting to explain why (in the european context) the quarterstaff was the king of weapons in personal combat. Reach and Speed.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

Quarterstaves are scary.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Another possibility (for the rule-tweak-inclined) might be to include an additional form of reach weapon - the "half reach" weapon which would probably include spears and those polearms which don't have 10ft reach.

These could then be given an advantage in combat - possibilities include:

If you have greater reach than your opponent, +2 circumstance bonus to hit, if you have lesser reach than your opponent -2 circumstance bonus to hit.

or

Anyone moving to engage someone armed with a half-reach weapon incurs an AoO as they first move adjacent to them. (more tricky to adjudicate an so not as good)

Cheers