The Whole I'll HAve to Rebuy My Stuff! Argument...

[Khairn]

I don't have a problem with anyone feeling that the edition is too soon.

It's just the idea that they have to "rebuy" all their stuff.

All they're doing is buying MORE stuff.

So you understand but don't like the semantics of how they say it?

If they say "I don't want to buy more stuff!" its ok, but if they say "I don't want to have to re-buy stuff!", its a problem?

 

[Scribble]

So you understand but don't like the semantics of how they say it?

If they say "I don't want to buy more stuff!" its ok, but if they say "I don't want to have to re-buy stuff!", its a problem?

Yeah for the most part...

But not so much... Because if you don't want to buy more stuff, you still don't have to... Just don't buy it.

 

[Treebore]

The "rebuying my stuff" comes from the fact that when you buy 4E stuff your buying 3E stuff "reimagined" to the 4E rules set. When you rebuy FR or Eberron, your rebuying a lot of content that is in your 3E books, and 2E for FR, to get the "crunch parts" that are "Reimagined" for the 4E rules set.

Thats what is meant by "rebuying my stuff". The arguments through out this thread are additional problems people have.

Its why I bought very little 3E FR stuff, I had most of it in my "2E stuff". The only reason I liked buying the core FR book is because of how gorgeous the cosmetics are.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

However, if you switch to 4E and don't play 4E, much of the 3.5 product isn't going to see use.

Sure, I'll probably get a lot of use out of my Eberron books like Forge of War & The Five Nations. However, I probably will see little use from the Book of Nine Swords or the Expanded Psionics Handbook.

Right now, given than an update to Eberron seems far in the future, I'm contemplating sticking with 3.5 for my Eberron game until the core details are updated. I'll play 4E, and maybe even run a game specifically for 4E (Greyhawk has been whispering "use me" lately, for example), if I decide to use 4E.

I have almost never touched my non-adventure 3E stuff since 3.5 was released.

Poll on this topic is here.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I don't have a problem with anyone feeling that the edition is too soon.

It's just the idea that they have to "rebuy" all their stuff.

All they're doing is buying MORE stuff.

Quite often they're buying stuff that is simply a rewrite of older stuff. How many prestige classes in the Complete series were taken from the older 3.0 splatbook line? Why wasn't there just a free update for these classes, and all new ones in the 3.5 books? How much of the 3.5 core books was reprinted material from the 3.0 core books? How much of the material in 4th edition is going to be simply rewrites of 3.x material? That's what they mean about rebuying their stuff.

 

[Eldragon]

I think WotC could win a lot of converts to 4e if they offered a trade in program. e.g. Trade in your PHB 3.xe and get 15% off PHB 4e. When the 4e Complete Warrior comes out, do the same thing. It gives players a reason to upgrade, and helps user old editions out of circulation.

Yes, it would cut into WotC profit margins, but it might generate extra sales, offsetting the loss.

 

[Banshee16]

I don't have a problem with anyone feeling that the edition is too soon.

It's just the idea that they have to "rebuy" all their stuff.

All they're doing is buying MORE stuff.

Their older stuff that is heavy in crunch is no longer "valid" for the new edition. It won't work without extensive conversion. As someone who continued a Planescape campaign from 2nd Ed. into 3E, there was alot of conversion work to be done. Heck, look at some of the fan sites like Planewalker, Athas.org, and Birthright.net....most of them are *still* working out parts of the conversions, 8 years later. And now they'll have to start all over again.

Nobody will take my books away. But it's easy to become marginalized, if you want to stick with 3E, but all your players want to go to 4E. So, if you end up going to 4E to keep your group together, the DM ends up with a *tonne* of work to do converting stuff, if they want to keep using those older supplements. And if they don't convert them because of the whole thing with "it's not going to be that compatible, it's easier to start over", well, then, that just supports the whole argument that we're going to have to buy stuff all over again.

I don't like to be critical, but I think that minimalizing or making fun of those who are bringing this up is a little unfair. It's a legitimate, real concern.

So, if you end up only finding players who want to play 4E, your options are now limited. And if you move to 4E, you either have to do converting of old material you'd still like to use, or.....buy the newest supplements. And what I'm really concerned about is that 2 years from now, I'll be buying a City of Sharn 4E book, and a Magic of Eberron 4E, and a Waterdeep 4E book, etc. There was tonnes of stuff that could still be mined in 3E, and now it won't be done, and it's entirely possible that they'll be retreading ground that was just covered a few years before in 3E. For a lot of us, that's aggravating.

If they provided online conversion resources for 3E books to show how to use them for 4E, and then hit up with *new* books in 4E, like a 4E Moonshaes book, or 4E Old Empires, or whatever, that wouldn't be so bad. But I somewhat suspect that it's not going to happen.

I never would have thought it possible, but the whole thing makes me seriously consider becoming a 3E grognard, or just giving up the hobby. My group split in February, I haven't played since then, though I've started to try to find a new group. I seem to keep finding university students, however, who have no vehicle, and complain about needing to take the bus to get to the game, and have irregular attendance. To add on "3E only, even though the game is now at 4E" is just adding a further "filter" that has to be applied to the prospective pool of players.

I can kind of see the appeal of MMO's with all this. Upgrade to the new edition and pay for DnD Insider access, or get a Middle Earth online or WoW subscription, and leave the tabletop behind?

Banshee

 

[Banshee16]

Quite often they're buying stuff that is simply a rewrite of older stuff. How many prestige classes in the Complete series were taken from the older 3.0 splatbook line? Why wasn't there just a free update for these classes, and all new ones in the 3.5 books? How much of the 3.5 core books was reprinted material from the 3.0 core books? How much of the material in 4th edition is going to be simply rewrites of 3.x material? That's what they mean about rebuying their stuff.

Bingo...

Banshee

 

[Cabled]

I don't understand the whole "Wizards is making me rebuy my stuff!" argument...

WOTC isn't going to roll up and take your old stuff...

4e isn't going to come out all at once with a thousand dollars worth of merchandise...

I'm guessing it'll be the same release schedule (maybe slightly faster.)

Were people planning just to stop buying gaming stuff as of August 08? (if so can't they still do so?)

I just don't get that argument...

Yep, you sure will.

It's been that way as long as we've had stuff.

 

[Scribble]

I don't like to be critical, but I think that minimalizing or making fun of those who are bringing this up is a little unfair. It's a legitimate, real concern.

I'm not making fun of anyone. I honestly do not understand the argument.

You are not rebuying anything. You have everything you paid for.

Wizards is niow offering other products, and products to support that.

You have the option to buy it or not.

For me this is like saying you're upset because wizards released the rules for Psionics and now you HAVE to purchase a bunch of more psionics stuff because your players all want to play psionics.

If you like 4e, you're just buying more gaming stuff.

So, if you end up only finding players who want to play 4E, your options are now limited. And if you move to 4E, you either have to do converting of old material you'd still like to use, or.....buy the newest supplements. And what I'm really concerned about is that 2 years from now, I'll be buying a City of Sharn 4E book, and a Magic of Eberron 4E, and a Waterdeep 4E book, etc. There was tonnes of stuff that could still be mined in 3E, and now it won't be done, and it's entirely possible that they'll be retreading ground that was just covered a few years before in 3E. For a lot of us, that's aggravating.

Ok, I can understand being upset about that, but still, that's being upset because the material being released isn't original, not rebuying something you already own.

Really in a way, you're paying for someone else to do the work updating a concept to soemthing you enjoy. If you don't enjoy 4e, why buy stuff for it???

If they released stuff for d20 modern that was similar to stuff covered in D&D would that be considered forcing you to rebuy stuff?

If they provided online conversion resources for 3E books to show how to use them for 4E, and then hit up with *new* books in 4E, like a 4E Moonshaes book, or 4E Old Empires, or whatever, that wouldn't be so bad. But I somewhat suspect that it's not going to happen.

Well, they claim it didn't work the last time they treied... whether that's true or not is another matter...

I never would have thought it possible, but the whole thing makes me seriously consider becoming a 3E grognard, or just giving up the hobby. My group split in February, I haven't played since then, though I've started to try to find a new group. I seem to keep finding university students, however, who have no vehicle, and complain about needing to take the bus to get to the game, and have irregular attendance. To add on "3E only, even though the game is now at 4E" is just adding a further "filter" that has to be applied to the prospective pool of players.

Sorry to hear of your troubles... I never seem to have much luck with random people either... Glad I at least had 2 gamer friends living in San Fran when I got here....

I can kind of see the appeal of MMO's with all this. Upgrade to the new edition and pay for DnD Insider access, or get a Middle Earth online or WoW subscription, and leave the tabletop behind?

Banshee

Shrug... that's a different question altogether... But nowhere have I seen indication that the D&D insider portion is needed to play the game...