The Worst Prestige Class Awards

[Crothian]

To me it seems many posters have some sort of a grudge against all publishers for their Prestige classes I know of many players and DMs who like the prestige classes named in this thread. It is all a mater of taste. Of course, approaching PrC from a roleplaying point of view as opposed of a way to get some neat powers helps in this regard. The only prestige classes I have real trouble with are those that are very unclear on what exactly it gets, the Dragon Disciple being a prime example.

Even the classes I mentioned I've seen used in game. I think Prestige classes are a good thing. They just need to be used the right way.

 

[Shirt Guy John]

The only PrC I've seen playd is the Duelist, and that worked out well... very well.

I would personally rather see a few more feats in each of the splat books thatn the PrC's (Divine Feats come to mind...)

I did Like a few in MotW... as NPC classes (Frenzied Berserker, Foe Hunter, Bloodhound)

I agree that the thing that most commonly ruins PrCs is a lack of description or specification.

Still, some are pretty cool, when used right.

 

[frankthedm]

Unfortunatly they are most often used to sell the book in which they appear to the power hungy player who yearns to be free of the balance of the core books.

After all how many smack downs use the core rules compared to the splat books?

The worst parts of the PRCs is that they waste so much space that can be used for feat chains.

 

[mzsylver]

- ancestral avenger (Dragon, drow)

where is this prestige class printed? can you describe it?

 

[7thlvlDM]

LEAST ORIGINAL: The Master of the Shrouds (DotF). Highlights of the prestige class are: Summon Undead I, Summon Undead II, Summon Undead III and Summon Undead IV. Oh, and Extra Turning. And that's it...hardly inspiring.

I have to disagree that the Master of the Shrouds is the least original. I think if you use the rules in its side bar as is, i.e., the Master of Shrouds can summon vampires at first level, but if his foes are defeated before the summoning duration ends the summon undead turns on him, you have a pretty cool mechanic: a prestige class with a weapon to destroy most any foe, but also runs the risk of killing himself if he uses it.

I think any wizard prestige class that only gives + previous class caster level ever other level (e.g., Mirror Master from the Book of Eldritch Might) is relatively weak. I know someone thought this was a good idea, but if that character ever wishes to return to the wizard class, he's lost up to 5 levels in spell progression. Those PrC bonuses better be damned good to offset the lost progression.

-7th

 

[RangerWickett]

Anyone have any comments about the prestige classes from Asgard magazine?

Blind Assassin: In hindsight, I've learned this was based on something from Buffy or Angel, but still, it's kinda cool. Warriors are blinded but trained to have precognition in combat.

High Sorcerer: Gains greater magic powers, at the expense of taking damage while casting spells. Effectively, they become the physical embodiment of magic.

Feyspeaker: This class becomes restricted in the type of spells it can cast (evocations and necromancy are usually a no-no, but illusions and enchantments are great), and in exchange slowly adopts traits of various fey creatures. Also, they can lead circle dances, where several people can participate in casting a spell through dance. Though these spells take longer to cast, the Feyspeaker gains many options when applying them. At 10th level, she gains my favorite power, which allows her to lure and trap unwitting attackers in the fey realm. In effect, it's kinda like power word, kill, but isn't much cooler just knowing that your foe is going to dance himself to death over the next fifty years?

Stiltling: A halfling and gnome fighter class where the warrior runs around on two spears, staves, or polearms, using them as stilts to gain a height and reach advantage.

Ley Line Magus: Almost the magical equivalent of the Dwarven Defender. They bind a nearby stream of magical energy to the point that they're standing at, and as long as they don't move, they gain bonuses to their spell power, can scry down the length of the line, and eventually just cast spells purely from ley energy, without having to use their own spell slots. Great for a mage who wants to lay in siege.

Adventuring Scholar: A class from Privateer Press that is based on Indiana Jones.

Nevae Wanderer: From Thunderhead Games, I sadly can't recall much of this class. I believe they just had a great variety of bonuses based on their wanderings.

Taranesti Sword-Dancer: A dark Elven take on the Bladesinger. Instead of using both magic and swordplay, the Sword-Dancer makes the two disciplines one. A slash of a blade might change in mid-swing to become the somatic component of a spell, and skilled Sword-Dancers can parry spells as easily as they deflect swordblows.

Undead Hunter: A hunter who is undead, as opposed to one who hunts undead.

Crescent Island Spellsinger: The sea is always speaking, whispering in the lap of tides, or roaring through the crash of stormwaves. A song-based class, the spellsinger befriends the song of the ocean, which will always accompany her, acting as a second voice. This voice protects from sonic attacks, grants mild bardic abilities, and can eventually cast its own spells. A high-level spellsinger can master a whole choral symphony of seasong, casting as many as three spells per round, though this taxes her greatly.

 

[Archer]

First of all, while you gain only 3 caster levels over the course of the class, you *also* gain 17 'bonus spells', which I note you failed to mention. So you're not raising your maximum spell level much but you are still getting fairly large incresaes to the number of spells you can cast per day. (More, in fact, than a wizard at some levels.) And don't forget the +2 DC to saves if your target is Good.

I can see you read carefully.

... and I can see that you can't.

I clearly mentioned the bonus spells, you just managed to not quote them. The +2 DC to saves if your target is good = the unholy lace comment. I'm sorry if it wasn't more clear to you.

The two handed sorceror is exactly as bad as I make it out to be. It doesn't say you get the effect of the twin spell, it says you can cast "two copies of the same spell at the same time in one combat round as a full round action" and that at 10th level you can apply it to 3rd level spells instead of just 1st and 2nd and use it 3x/day. Even if you did get the twin spell feat applied to your 3rd level spell twice, you will get wasted by the 8th level spell cast against you plus they can throw in a quickened magic missile and cast another 8th level spell using haste. The difference between woefully underpowered and ridiculously underpowered is not a distincition I care to make.

Furthermore, I had separated the zombie master out as not the worst character class ever made but rather to compare it to other handlings of undead specialists that other people thought were poor. I'll admit is better than 10% as good, it could be considered as much as 75% as good (referring to quality of design). I feel the master of shrouds is more original than the zombie master. It has plusses if you are a wizard, notably the fort save and the one step up for hd but there are probably better choices. It is definitely worse if you are a cleric.

Spontaneous casting of animate dead isn't a great ability because the range is touch. You going to run around the battlefield touching corpses to revive them with your pouch full of onyx?

You are always better off using bigger zombies than empowering smaller zombies because of reach and better damage dice.

Bolster undead makes a few of your weaker undead harder to turn. Say you have 30 zombies and you bolster 15 of them. When the good cleric turns, the 15 unbolstered zombies turn to dust which is pretty much exactly what would have happened had you not wasted a round bolstering when you should have been casting an attack spell or running away.
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On another note, the reason there aren't more feats in the splatbooks is because there is a realistic limit on how many different feats you can have. More feats are either too powerful, too weak or redundant after about the first 250.

 

[7thlvlDM]

Anyone have any comments about the prestige classes from Asgard magazine?

I haven't thoroughly looked through them RangerWickett, but my first impression was that they were quite original and well done.

I think prestige classes should be

1) Exciting. Let's put the prestige back in prestige classes. Cool new mechanics and awesome powers do this. The Arcane Archer and Shadow Dancer are pretty exciting IMO.

2) Balanced. I think it's ok for prestige classes to have abilities well above those of core classes, so long as they have weaknesses and penalties that counterbalance them. We shouldn't forget about the prerequisites when determining balance. If you have to acquire 3 weak feats, that could instead be cleave, great cleave, and power attack, that's a sacrifice. The Archmage is a pretty balance class IMO.

 

[Archer]

Yes, a good prestige class should make someone excited but then thoughful about what they are giving up but then back to being excited about the new possiblilities that are being opened to them.

I'm not a big fan of forcing someone to take a bunch of crappy feats to take a prestige class. Skill ranks are better. They force enough of a commitment that you probably won't take just 1 level but they don't waste the precious commodity that are feats. It also restricts low int characters from taking the prestige class. If you must force someone to take a feat, make sure that the feat is actually important to the prestige class or that the class takes the feat a step further ie. great cleave -> supreme cleave.

 

[drnuncheon]

Anyone have any comments about the prestige classes from Asgard magazine?

Blind Assassin: In hindsight, I've learned this was based on something from Buffy or Angel, but still, it's kinda cool. Warriors are blinded but trained to have precognition in combat.

That's been around a lot longer than Buffy & Angel. I remember it from the G.I. Joe cartoon, and it wasn't new then either. (Heck, it was in Star Wars now that I think about it.)

J