Thematic use of Epic Destinies - how have you used them in play?

[S'mon]

Hi all - long time no see! A question for any DMs who have run Epic-Tier 4e. I'm interested in stories of how DMs and players have used Epic Destinies in story terms (ie apart from the mechanical benefits) and how they have affected/determined your campaigns. Did they take your games in a different direction from what you originally envisaged? What sort of dramatic weight did they have?
[MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION], are you running Epic Tier yet?
If your campaign uses them purely as mechanical benefits with no other effect on play, that's great but not really what I'm interested in here - OTOH if you tried to use them as more than that, but ran into problems, that'd be interesting to hear about.
My own campaign just hit 14th and has a year or so until the PCs reach 21st level. I'm starting to look at ways to bring in approaching Epic Destinies, which is easy where a PC is built around a particular concept or goal and working towards it. The Dwarven Knight working to rebuild Ammarindar should be a cert for Legendary Sovereign; the Slayer looks a great fit for Iron Vanguard. There are also players who don't have a clear goal but can fit various EDs. Then there's the one who keeps changing class and goals and comes up with seemingly inappropriate stuff - I'm starting to think his PC might be an Eternal Seeker!

 

[S'mon]

That last point brings up an issue I have with Destinies - they're a player-facing rule, but Destiny as such is not something fully in the hands of the character. So unlike Paragon Paths I'm keeping some control of what EDs are taken (much to the outrage of rpgnet when I mentioned that there) - even if a Bard technically meets the prereq for Archmage through multiclassing, if the ED is totally antithetical to the way the PC has been played then I won't allow it. I'm not interested in a mechanics-centric approach where the 'fluff' is treated as disposable.
I am interested in running an open campaign where PC Destinies shape how it develops, so a thematically strong ED like Legendary Sovereign will have a major impact on the campaign and the game-world. This makes some of the mechanically weaker but thematically stronger EDs worth considering, I think. One PC has become the Green Regent of Gray Vale (Favoured of Mielikki Paragon Path) and will become the Avatar of Life (an ED) - the player is leaving after next session so I've brought forward some of the impact of the ED on the milieu, as the land flourishes under his gentle ministrations.

 

[Evilhalfling]

I have never reached epic levels, but I had similar concerns with Paragon Paths. I worked with each player to find a path that they liked and was thematically appropriate. I knew where they were going before they hit 10th level. I also asked if they wanted a specific quest that would lead into their paragon path. Since 4/5 players wanted paths that I could link to the fey, we had a combined adventure in the feywild, that advanced them to 11th level.
Two PCs actually gained the title "Knight of the Winter Court" even though their PP's were very different.

As for inappropriate paths - a dwarven paladin decided he wanted to be a Knight of the White Horn (unicorn riding Knight of the Summer Fey) He never rode a mount, he had nothing to do with the fey, and was a loyal servant of the god of War. He wouldn't budge, so after talking with all the players OC a few clever ideas drifted to the surface.

He was actually recruited by the Winter Court, and they stole a unicorn from the Summer court. He agreed to stay out of the feywild and fey politics afterward. Basically he was just a parasite on the summer court, tapping into their power and refusing to help them. The PC also had to keep fending off inappropriate suggestions by another PCs Satyr companion, who was a member of the Winter Court and had been named "Sex Fiend" by the player. the Satyr knew a *Very* friendly unicorn ....

As for effect on the campaign world, One of the PCs was the Heir to a city based on Neverwinter He took Soaring Rake as his prestige path - and abdicated his right to the throne. He would rather go flying than rule. He did get a squadron of guards who became fanatically loyal to him, after he convinced them to jump of a building for him. The minions tapped into his paragon path and gained flying for a short amount of time. (tilll end of next round of course) With practice afterward it became an encounter power for them.

The campaign ended after 12th level, but we may return to them next time I run.

 

[Ferghis]

Two such EDs.

First, I had a deva shaman who was the former angel of the dead Sune, in Forgotten Realms. Her main motivation was to gather up allies and resources to avenge her mistress' death. The Dead God Avatar has the perfect fluff. But the crunch fell short in a few ways. Mainly, the main power had effects specific to a few other dead gods, but not Sune. That, and a few minor things that required houseruling turned me off of the ED.

In another case, I have a character who is coming back as a former primordial. Planeshaper ED just makes a lot of sense in this case, but the ED has fluff woven so deeply into the crunch that I would never take it if it didn't fit the plot.

I'm not sure this helps you at all, but it's all I have, at the moment.

 

[the Jester]

There's an interesting range in my game. A pretty broad range.

On the one hand, there's one guy who tends to die a lot and often has a DNR order for his pcs because he likes to try new things a lot. His current pc is relatively new and he hadn't made up his mind which ED to take until he hit 21st; he went with demigod. When I asked him what he wanted to be demigod of, he was stumped- so, as of yet, he hasn't really developed this. He just Facebooked me the other day that he wants to be the demigod of treasure under Lester, the god of adventure, which fits- he got a half million gp line of credit in Hell and bought just about every wondrous item below 10th level. So he carries around all this stuff (and has 2 bags of holding, a portable hole and a handy haversack...). Now that I have something to work with, it should be a snap to work this in- the pcs just went through a couple of sessions at Lester's old Temple of Elemental Good/School for Adventurers and met the current high priest of Lester. Hurray for an easy way to tie it all together!

There's a pixie vampire in the party who is taking Lord of Hell. That half-million credit line in Hell I mentioned above? Well, the party has a certain amount of diabolic patronage (the enemy of my enemy etc) and, though no pcs have interacted with it in my game in 4e, there's a long-term "Let's Replace Some Lords of Hell" game being played in the Nine Hells IMC (Tiamat already retook Avernus from Bel in my game in 3e, and my 3e epic party slew Asmodeus, letting Lucifer return as the Lord of Hell); so Dianthus (the pc pixie vampire... devil) is being set up to overthrow Dispater (and hasn't fully come clean to the rest of the party about it yet, but they are starting to notice that she can hang out in a fire without discomfort and the like). So, yeah, again, this has tied in (and continues to tie in, as she tries to manipulate/convince the rest of the party to slay Dispater) with roleplaying and in-game developments in the milieu.

The gnome rogue is a dark wanderer; we've played out no real hooks or tie-ins, though I'm not certain we need to. If anything, it will probably tie in with the gnomish Illuminati.

There are a couple of non-epic pcs, one of whom is going to take a custom ED (Conqueror of the World). He's got ties to a small army back at 'home base', so that's a start. The other guy is a couple levels behind, and I'm not really sure what kind of ED he's going to take, or even if he's looked at his options yet.

Then there are two more pcs who are epic, each of whom has a custom ED tied tightly to the campaign. Each has roleplaying prerequisites that the pcs had to meet- have the Mask of the Delphin and gain control of a moon, respectively- so they've tied in to lots of action in the campaign.

A couple more pcs- the seeker and the

 

[S'mon]

The minions tapped into his paragon path and gained flying for a short amount of time. (tilll end of next round of course) With practice afterward it became an encounter power for them.

That's a cool idea - the Paragon Slayer IMC recruited a squadron of minion guards to train in his own image, and the Green Regent/Favoured of Mielikki has begun recruiting followers likewise; perhaps his new cadre of priests could take on some of his attributes/powers.

 

[S'mon]

First, I had a deva shaman who was the former angel of the dead Sune, in Forgotten Realms.

When did Sune die?!
This sounds a bit like our Green Regent PC who's the earthly manifestation of Mielikki's grace; I did just stat her up yesterday but I wasn't planning to kill her off - though you never know what can happen...

 

[S'mon]

There are a couple of non-epic pcs, one of whom is going to take a custom ED (Conqueror of the World).

Custom EDs seem like a good idea for tying their themes closely in to the campaign; especially perhaps where a PC has a lot going on but doesn't seem obviously headed for a published ED. I guess published ones can also be reskinned but I'm maybe a bit averse to that, it kinda feels cheap - especially if I suspect a player wants a strong ED purely for the mechanics. I'd rather build up a mechanically weak ED so the crunch isn't a deterrent.
Legendary Sovereign is a funny one in that it needs a fluff reskin just so it's more than "you're the crown prince", and doesn't feel like a mere Paragon Path - I want the PC to be a legendary sovereign *during* the game, not after the campaign ends! And it needs the original endline from its first publication as Mythic Sovereign added back in; something like "legends will say he only sleeps, to rise again at his nation's hour of greatest need" - so it feels sufficiently King Arthur/Friedrich Barbarossa/Holger Danske.

 

[Ferghis]

When did Sune die?!

I don't really know. There's too much Forgotten Realms stuff for me to really follow it closely, so when my DM said she had died I thought it would be perfect to make her the deva's former boss. So maybe she's not dead in the official history, although my DM didn't preface the fact with "in my campaign" or anything like that. It wasn't even a part of the plot until I thought up the character concept.

 

[keterys]

She's not dead in the default canon; Mystra*, Tyr, Helm sure. * For some definitions of dead