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4E Themes

twilsemail

Villager
My google-fu is failing me. Was anything ever decided in regards to the Dragon 399 themes? As it stands, it seems like adding Scholar to Mal's sheet is fair, but I wanted to check in before doing so.
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
Officially, they are not allowed yet (1 month after the download version is done... which is later this month). Judges still need to kabitz about them.

I'll ping [MENTION=2011]KarinsDad[/MENTION], [MENTION=82251]TwoHeadsBarking[/MENTION], and [MENTION=54810]renau1g[/MENTION]. I know r1 had some issues. Me... I'm one the fence as stated, the big issue is folks w/o access to them.
 

twilsemail

Villager
The rules for what's accepted and what isn't should probably be updated at some point to reflect the change in Dragon content's publication. Specifically the lack of a complation issue. Currently the articles come up as available every day or three.

Someone should put forward a generic "Adventurer" theme, if these are going forward.
 

renau1g

Villager
So I guess technically Dungeon/Dragon materials could never be approved as there's no compilation "New material published by Wizards of the Coast is automatically approved one month after it is published; for Dragon and Dungeon articles, approval occurs one month after the full issue containing the article is made available "

Anyways, I'm interested to hear the other judges thoughts as we would need KD and/or THB to vote either way. I think KD's sub expired, mine just did as well, not sure if I'll renew or not...we'll see.
 

KarinsDad

Villager
I begrudgingly renewed my subscription for another year.

Not sure if I'll do that again though.


As for themes, they just seem like yet another way to give more powers and abilities to PCs for no good reason.

And, they do not appear to yet be in the compendium or in the character builder which means that players will have a hard time accessing them and anyone reviewing a character sheet will need to go look up Dragon magazine.


But, they are official material, so I have no problem with them being automatically approved here.
 
I'd really prefer to not allow themes. I don't feel that what they add is going to be worth the extra hassle for checking characters and having to create a LEB theme that people without DDI subscriptions can use so they aren't at a significant disadvantage.
 

twilsemail

Villager
I would propose (were we to allow themes into the game) restricting the addition of themes to when a character levels or is re-written. This way they were going to go through the approvals process anyway.

The creation of an "Adventurer" theme doesn't seem overly difficult. It requires one power and two features to meet the minimum of what we've currently got from WotC.

Level 1: Adventurer's Grit
Encounter*Free Action
Trigger: You fail a skill check
Effect: Spend one healing surge. You may re-roll the triggering skill check.

Level 5: Been There, Done That - You gain a +2 bonus on monster knowledge checks.

Level 10: True Adventurer - Once per day you may reroll an Acrobatics, Athletics or Endurance check.
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
Okay, I'll get the ball rolling on this officially.

I vote Yes given we have a generic theme. I'm fine w/ twils above, though I'm open to new suggestions. Restrict theme to be taken only outside an adventure when getting approval.
 

twilsemail

Villager
I'd suggest that at a GM approved point Themes might be added as well. When the party takes an extended rest or some such.

This is entire selfless and has nothing to do with the fact that I'm in an adventure that is kicking off and hasn't gotten to the crunchy bits yet.
 

renau1g

Villager
Okay, I'll get the ball rolling on this officially.

I vote Yes given we have a generic theme. I'm fine w/ twils above, though I'm open to new suggestions. Restrict theme to be taken only outside an adventure when getting approval.
Yes mostly the same caveats as stonegod, except like twilsemail notes below, if the DM is ok with allowing them mid-adventure then that's fine. It would be kinda unfair to a PC in a really long running adventure, like say Trouble in Moonwatch, which is just celebrating it's 2nd anniversary with the conclusion of said adventure, for them to wait until adventure's end. Again, subject to DM approval.

I'd suggest that at a GM approved point Themes might be added as well. When the party takes an extended rest or some such.

This is entire selfless and has nothing to do with the fact that I'm in an adventure that is kicking off and hasn't gotten to the crunchy bits yet.
 

KarinsDad

Villager
For the moment, I am going to vote NO for the following reason. Themes are not yet in WotC Compendium and to my knowledge, not in Character Builder either.

The judges are toying with the idea of a better character sheet setup on the wiki and if material is not in the Character Builder, it makes it really hard to set up an easy way for people to build their PCs in CB and then have it approved by the judges.

So my general thought is that if any material doesn't show up in Character Builder (with the exception of the house rule Expertise), it just makes it harder for players to create the PC and for the judges to approve them, and overall we shouldn't allow it in LEB (the exception to this being material that is just in error in CB which should be corrected). It's not as if there are not thousands of feats, powers, items, rituals, backgrounds, etc. for the players to choose from already. Having a few more options from a theme isn't really necessary IMO.

The moment that themes are supported by the online Character Builder is the moment that I change my vote.
 

renau1g

Villager
FWIW, they're in the online CB, as of yesterday at least. The powers are in the Compendium, just not the whole theme
 
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Well, I'm still not sold on themes as a necessary, or even good, idea in the first place. But I don't feel strongly enough against them to say no, so yes.
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
That seals it then: 3 Yays and 1 Nay (which may change to Yay). 48 hours and its passed.
 

renau1g

Villager
Oh and just to clarify, these themes are the ones from Dragon, not the Dark Sun ones, those are still not allowed....right?
 

Luinnar

Villager
Any chance the Darksun themes could get unbanned provided people re-skinn them to fit in Eberron? (I suppose that would require a different proposal?).
 

stonegod

Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
That would be a different proposal. And my opinion on them has not changed since the banning.
 

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