There is one thing about the Scout that annoys me

[Drowbane]

You'll want to re-read the rules on that...

No Dexterity Bonus: You lose your Dexterity bonus to AC (if you have one) against opponents you aren’t grappling. (You can still use it against opponents you are grappling.)

Huh... how'd we miss that? :goes to read his PHB:

 

[Hussar]

OH bugger. And I actually KNEW that as well. Sigh. Brain fade. So used to the party rogue going all stabbity after the fighter gets snatched.

I'm going to go whack my head with a rules fu bat for a while.

 

[pawsplay]

I do not argue that freedom of movement is useful, desirable, and balanced at 18th level. I'm just saying, isn't it strange? Some guy in a beaverskin cap wandering around, who absolutely cannot be grappled. It's not a supernatural ability. It is simply impossible for something to grab him because he is so darned mobile. The kraken? Can't do it. Reaping mauler? Nope.

In fact, even if you sneaked up on him while he was asleep and pinned him, he would escape. In fact, he is immune even while he is asleep. If a basilisk petrified him, he would still be immune to grappling. It is physically impossible to grapple him.

This is also one of several organic character growth problems with the Scout... I hope you didn't spend too many ranks on Escape Artist, because you won't need them, now. (Another issue would be access to bonus feats that help you fight in darkness, which if you took, would be superceded at 10th level by blindsense).

 

[Sunderstone]

I do not argue that freedom of movement is useful, desirable, and balanced at 18th level. I'm just saying, isn't it strange? Some guy in a beaverskin cap wandering around, who absolutely cannot be grappled. It's not a supernatural ability. It is simply impossible for something to grab him because he is so darned mobile. The kraken? Can't do it. Reaping mauler? Nope.

In fact, even if you sneaked up on him while he was asleep and pinned him, he would escape. In fact, he is immune even while he is asleep. If a basilisk petrified him, he would still be immune to grappling. It is physically impossible to grapple him.

This is also one of several organic character growth problems with the Scout... I hope you didn't spend too many ranks on Escape Artist, because you won't need them, now. (Another issue would be access to bonus feats that help you fight in darkness, which if you took, would be superceded at 10th level by blindsense).

Yeah, that doesnt make much sense to me as well. The "believability factor" plummets. Previously, based on what some posters say here I was considering allowing a select few classes like Warlock, Favored Soul, and Scout, I dont think Scout will make the list now. I think ill stick to the Core books, The PHII, and the XPH for the forseeable future.

 

[Slife]

If a basilisk petrified him, he would still be immune to grappling. It is physically impossible to grapple him.

Who'd have thought that class abilities are still functional on stone statues. And apparently, he can still move and attack normally, since the class ability includes that. [/sarcasm]

 

[an_idol_mind]

Yep, that grappling thing is a serious problem...unless the DM applies common sense to the equation.

 

[Evilhalfling]

. (Another issue would be access to bonus feats that help you fight in darkness, which if you took, would be superceded at 10th level by blindsense).

nope.
Blindfight alows you to reroll miss chance, blindsense still gives the target concelement against you, and the normal (50%) miss chance. The two work very well togeather.

 

[Felon]

I do not argue that freedom of movement is useful, desirable, and balanced at 18th level. I'm just saying, isn't it strange? Some guy in a beaverskin cap wandering around, who absolutely cannot be grappled. It's not a supernatural ability. It is simply impossible for something to grab him because he is so darned mobile. The kraken? Can't do it. Reaping mauler? Nope.

Yeah, that doesnt make much sense to me as well. The "believability factor" plummets. Previously, based on what some posters say here I was considering allowing a select few classes like Warlock, Favored Soul, and Scout, I dont think Scout will make the list now. I think ill stick to the Core books, The PHII, and the XPH for the forseeable future.

Hang on. You were considering allowing the scout, but because of some ability the scout gets at a level that--let's face it--most characters haven't a prayer of reaching, you're going to reject not only the scout, but all the complete classes? That squarely falls into the overreaction category.

I figured I had addressed this adequately above, but this is hardly the only class feature that suffers from believability problems. Evasion is a pretty common class feature that classes get very early into their career, and most folks have reconciled themselves with its utter lack of believability. A bomb can explode in a rogue's face, or ten tons of rocks can be dropped on a monk, and nothing happens if they make their Reflex save? Come on already. How believable is uncanny dodge? Nothing can ever catch a 2nd-level barbarian flat-footed, not even an invisible silent dart coming at him from behind? The game's loaded with unbelievable abilities. It's OK, really.

OTOH, the issue of having abilities that render other choices a character made worthless is significant. When that happens, it's a good time for the character to request a respec from the DM.

 

[Henrix]

The "believability factor" plummets.

The "believability" factor? Of an 18th level ability?

Compared to....what? An 18th level wizard? An 18th level fighter wading through as many 4th level fighters as he can reach every round? Or a monk who can speak with any creature that has a language and runs at 40 mph?

 

[Sunderstone]

I should have been more specific, sorry Felon. I said I was dumping Scout from the list, previously I was considering buying the "Complete" series. To buy them all for a few classes is expensive enough as it was. Now ill hold off on the books completely.
If my players buy the books on their own, I will allow the Warlock and Favored Soul atm. The Scout I will still dump.

As for Rogues evasion, I use common sense. If theres nothing to get behind or tumble to for some kind of cover, or getting around a corner, etc. the Rogue is screwed. A Rogue enclosed in a 20' bare room will not escape the blast of a fireball. Having a Scout "magically " immune to a Kraken, Roper, etc. while caught sleeping or unaware is too far over the top.