D&D General Things That Bug You

[Jackdaw McGraw]

My biggest gripe with 5E and most other editions is that the trope "terrifying arcane power gained by unearthing of dark, ancient secrets" - which is central to so many published campaigns (perhaps the granddaddy of tropes) and implicit in a lot of the descriptive text - is not reflected in the mechanics, like at all.

There are no spells, feats, class features, magic items etc. that can be more easily (or only) gained through nefarious sacrifice rather than plucky ambition. There are no moral trade-offs required for the upper echelons of arcane or divine power. 8th and 9th level spells don't have any profound costs, just gp equivalents. And the "ancient secrets" are almost always re-skins of existing knowledge or an adequately CR balanced magic item.

It feels like a very central trope to fantasy adventure is just artifice and macgunnfin-ism in D&D.

 

[Mind of tempest]

My biggest gripe with 5E and most other editions is that the trope "terrifying arcane power gained by unearthing of dark, ancient secrets" - which is central to so many published campaigns (perhaps the granddaddy of tropes) and implicit in a lot of the descriptive text - is not reflected in the mechanics, like at all.

There are no spells, feats, class features, magic items etc. that can be more easily (or only) gained through nefarious sacrifice rather than plucky ambition. There are no moral trade-offs required for the upper echelons of arcane or divine power. 8th and 9th level spells don't have any profound costs, just gp equivalents. And the "ancient secrets" are almost always re-skins of existing knowledge or an adequately CR balanced magic item.

It feels like a very central trope to fantasy adventure is just artifice and macgunnfin-ism in D&D.

yeah, that is odd.

 

[loverdrive]

From the top of my head I can think of two

• Perception. Is just a stupid skill that shouldn't exist.
• Saving throws. Why the hell have it, if in 4E we had defenses that work better in every way? Or, maybe get rid of AC and add armour saving throw, either would be fine

 

[Eubani]

What I hate is whenever you say gee I wish a Fighter could have an ability that did something other than attack for HP damage, a grognard from the low IQ region says "but you can just explain what you want to do". Trying to explain this in a way that their lonely brain cell can get that it something every class can do is painful.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

My biggest gripe with 5E and most other editions is that the trope "terrifying arcane power gained by unearthing of dark, ancient secrets" - which is central to so many published campaigns (perhaps the granddaddy of tropes) and implicit in a lot of the descriptive text - is not reflected in the mechanics, like at all.

There are no spells, feats, class features, magic items etc. that can be more easily (or only) gained through nefarious sacrifice rather than plucky ambition. There are no moral trade-offs required for the upper echelons of arcane or divine power. 8th and 9th level spells don't have any profound costs, just gp equivalents. And the "ancient secrets" are almost always re-skins of existing knowledge or an adequately CR balanced magic item.

It feels like a very central trope to fantasy adventure is just artifice and macgunnfin-ism in D&D.

I am a fan of this conceit as well and like it as a theme in my homebrew but rarely implement it mechanically. As far as I know in D&D, only Dark Sun Defilers have ever come close to having a "cost" for magic. The fiction in Dragonlance heavily implies a "cost" as well, but this is not reflected in the game materials.

 

[turnip_farmer]

I am a fan of this conceit as well and like it as a theme in my homebrew but rarely implement it mechanically. As far as I know in D&D, only Dark Sun Defilers have ever come close to having a "cost" for magic. The fiction in Dragonlance heavily implies a "cost" as well, but this is not reflected in the game materials.

I'm rather find of systems that embrace the Linear Fighter / Quadratic Wizard concept, but with the extreme power of higher magics imposing serious costs on the wizards, as exemplified by Doug Kovac's famous illustration of a magic user's progress through levels in the DCC rulebook:

 

[Mind of tempest]

I'm rather find of systems that embrace the Linear Fighter / Quadratic Wizard concept, but with the extreme power of higher magics imposing serious costs on the wizards, as exemplified by Doug Kovac's famous illustration of a magic user's progress through levels in the DCC rulebook:

man, those first six levels were mad.

 

[dave2008]

• Perception. Is just a stupid skill that shouldn't exist.

Why is that? It seems very natural to me, but I'm sure my experiences are different than yours. Just curious why you feel it shouldn't exist.

 

[loverdrive]

Why is that? It seems very natural to me, but I'm sure my experiences are different than yours. Just curious why you feel it shouldn't exist.

It isn't, hm, active. Like, when character is Investigating, they're looking around, searching for clues, when they're using Athletics, they use physical strength -- climb, lift, push, etc. For every other skill, the risk and reward are pretty obvious.

With Perception, though? I can't see (perceive, if you insist) any way it can backfire. It feels more like a saving throw, or when using Passive Perception, like "Defence vs. Stealth"

 

[dave2008]

It isn't, hm, active. Like, when character is Investigating, they're looking around, searching for clues, when they're using Athletics, they use physical strength -- climb, lift, push, etc. For every other skill, the risk and reward are pretty obvious.

With Perception, though? I can't see (perceive, if you insist) any way it can backfire. It feels more like a saving throw, or when using Passive Perception, like "Defence vs. Stealth"

OK, thank you for the clarification. I guess they way we use perception there are clear risks and rewards. Whether you sense the dragon lurking behind the glamoured cave entrance has serious consequences IMO.

I do understand how passive perception is a bit of an odd skill out though. It just doesn't bother me.