This game is ridiculous -- same problems for years
- Thread starter Quasqueton
- Start date
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
Proof of 1E munchkinism? I give you The Intercontinental Union of Disgusting Characters.
I remember reading that issue when it was new. I would have been 9 years old.
I think all of the references to AT-ATs and Star Wars are telling. Dragon's audience in 1984 (without checking my files I'd say somewhere at about 100,000--twice the current size) had a lot more 9-year-olds in it than it does today.
Obviously, the audience for D&D did too. 9-year-olds didn't just stop reading Dragon--they stopped playing D&D, period.
I think the best--really the only--explanation for this is that D&D has lacked a credible "entry-level" product for the game since at least the beginning of second edition and the end of the "Basic Set" era. That kept the game out of toystores (where I bought most of my D&D stuff in the early 80s), and thus out of the sight and minds of kids.
The "kid" players of D&D's first wave have grown up to be the editors-in-chief of the game's magazines, the heads of its design departments, its greatest artists and writers, and its most reliable customers. D&D, as a brand and as a social institution, is currently benefiting greatly from the wave of kids who were attracted to its first wave. The lack of credible youth-recruiting in the tabletop RPG hobby in the last 20 years will soon come home to roost, to no one's benefit.
Lots of kids still play the game, of course, but Dragon doesn't get very many of those letters, anymore.
--Erik
I think all of the references to AT-ATs and Star Wars are telling. Dragon's audience in 1984 (without checking my files I'd say somewhere at about 100,000--twice the current size) had a lot more 9-year-olds in it than it does today.
Obviously, the audience for D&D did too. 9-year-olds didn't just stop reading Dragon--they stopped playing D&D, period.
I think the best--really the only--explanation for this is that D&D has lacked a credible "entry-level" product for the game since at least the beginning of second edition and the end of the "Basic Set" era. That kept the game out of toystores (where I bought most of my D&D stuff in the early 80s), and thus out of the sight and minds of kids.
The "kid" players of D&D's first wave have grown up to be the editors-in-chief of the game's magazines, the heads of its design departments, its greatest artists and writers, and its most reliable customers. D&D, as a brand and as a social institution, is currently benefiting greatly from the wave of kids who were attracted to its first wave. The lack of credible youth-recruiting in the tabletop RPG hobby in the last 20 years will soon come home to roost, to no one's benefit.
Lots of kids still play the game, of course, but Dragon doesn't get very many of those letters, anymore.
--Erik
Glyfair
Explorer
Erik Mona said:
You only need to look at contract bridge to see a possible future for tabletop style RPGs (even if played online). As recent as the 70s contract bridge used to thrive in colleges, I even learned to play as a high school elective. Today the median age of the American Contract Bridge League is in the mid to high 60s.
In the 90s, my partner & I often got comments about how nice it was to have young people playing the game (when we were in our mid 30s). When we encountered a 12 year old playing, we told him we got those comments too and he said "you guys!?!"
Yes, that was 30 years ago. However, that's how long RPGs have been around, and look at the changes we've seen in that time. I'm not saying that is the future, but it's something that should be watched out for.
Maldor
First Post
My players have characters who have created spells that propel them through time and space at tremendous rates. They have looted the future and brought back devices that could destroy Greyhawk and many of the planes. They own several Battlestars, and they also have a large stock of AT-AT Walkers from The Empire Strikes Back. How do I keep them from destroying Greyhawk and creating an incredibly boring campaign?"
"One player I know in an AD&D game has a human character who has changed his race and class several times, and is now multiclassed in four classes. He decided his character would kill Orcus, and after that his character became the new prince of the undead, with an unlimited amount of any undead to control, even an unlimited number of liches. The character also has some star destroyers he uses to fly around in space or to destroy planets. This character has a permanent prismatic sphere around him that even moves with him. He says he made it by wishing a couple times. How does one deal with this kind of player in a campaign?"
You could do this in in 1E &2E? I have never lived.
"One player I know in an AD&D game has a human character who has changed his race and class several times, and is now multiclassed in four classes. He decided his character would kill Orcus, and after that his character became the new prince of the undead, with an unlimited amount of any undead to control, even an unlimited number of liches. The character also has some star destroyers he uses to fly around in space or to destroy planets. This character has a permanent prismatic sphere around him that even moves with him. He says he made it by wishing a couple times. How does one deal with this kind of player in a campaign?"
You could do this in in 1E &2E? I have never lived.
Mallus said:
Maybe it's just my natural tendency towards playing advocatus diaboli & rationalizing anything, but I have to agree! As much as my original reaction to those stories was scorn, I now have to appreciate the creativity they represent.
It seems Mike Mornard's "Anything not specifically forbidden is permitted" statement resonates more & more with me as time goes by.
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