This legal by RAW?

[Darklone]

... wouldn't be the first time an eager player "interprets" some ability that gives spellcaster level +1 as spell level +1...

 

[argo]

Hello all. I am the DM that Rusty was referring to. I would just like to point out a few minor errors in his opening, and thank you for your suggestions about dealing with him.
First off, he is a Gnome Dragonborn of Bahamut Sorceror. Went through the whole ritual and everything.
Second, his owl is a Giant Owl, not a Dire Owl. He did not buy it, he rescued it, and it travels and helps him out of gratitude.
Finally, this Psudodragon is a new familiar, since becoming Dragonborn. His original died, he went the year and a day needed, and asked me if a psudodragon would be appropriate as a familiar because of his new strong affinity with dragons. I agreed, thinking it logical. I and Rusty will speak with him as to where he's getting the other stuff on our next game session.

Welcome to the boards and thanks for clearing a few things up. However, I do wonder about a few things.

So, he did not buy his Giant Owl but got it through rolepaly. That's ok, but it is a prety good perk - buying a Giant Owl mount on the open market would cost 4000 gp for the owl and another 1000 gp to pay someone to raise/train it. 5th level characters should have only 9000 gp by the DMG wealth guidelines. Likewise you let him have his pseudodragon familiar 2 levels lower than the DMG advises for roleplay reasons. These are all fairly strong advantages for someone of his level.

So the question I have then is are you giving the other players similar perks for roleplay? Are they recieving favors and boons from the people they help out or gifts from their gods? As the DM giving out roleplay bonuses outside the DMG guidelines is certainly your prerogative. However it is also your job to make sure some parity exists between the players so that some players dont wind up feeling that others are getting special treatment. Since DungeonMaester wound up comming here to question the other player's build I have to wonder if the people in your group are not feeling that way?

Just my 2 cp.

 

[DungeonMaester]

As a fellow DM I have no problem letting people role play certain quirks that are not covered by officail 3.5 books (such as a character whom comes from a rich family) But when a role playing bonus overlaps a feat or a class ability, that is where I draw the line. And this very much crosses the line of a free familiar. And for the Psudeo dragon...Well..There are reasons for it 7th level characters.

---Rusty

 

[Cameron]

Out group has a new players which is cause trouble with other players (Including myself), In a 5th level campaign he is playing a silver scale gnome illusionist with a dire owl mount and a psudeo-dragon familiar. I question if he his following the rules on this.

1) Does being a silver scale dragon have a level adjustment and or racial hid dice so he is not a 5th level sorc?

2) His claim is that he can have a dire owl as a mount just by buying one and not having to take a feat, is there any truth to that?

3) His big attack is 'phastial killer' (I don't know the name of the spell of hand, but it does ability score damage) which is delivered through a bite of his psudeo-dragon pet.

Thanks for the help.

---Rusty

1. As was clarified by the DM, he is Dragonborn, which is a LA+0 race. It is legal.

2. Mounts can be bought, or in this case, given as an RP perk. No feat needed. It is legal.

3. As a 5th level Sorcerer, he has access to 2nd level spells, which include, amongst other things: Touch of Idiocy (1d6 penalty to Int, Wis and Cha, can't go below 1), and Shivering Touch aka "Dragonkiller" (3d6 damage to Dex). Both of which he can channel through his familiar. The familiar doesn't even have to hit with a bite. It just has to succeed on a touch attack to deliver it. The bite is actually making it harder for the pet to deliver the spell as it has to be a successful attack to discharge it. It is not only legal, he is actually neutering the ability.

So, as far as I can see, all your suspicions are unfounded.

It seems that this is a player that knows his way around his feats, equipment, spells and abilities, and he is joining a group that is familiar with none of the above. Instead of trying to find out how he did it and learn from it, the group whines and whinges and tries to go behind his back and ask others in the hope of tripping him up and then collectively beating on him because, hey, they are *right*!

As for destroying games... Well, I wouldn't be surprised. Put a clued up science guy in front of someone that has never heard of fire, and you will see "magic" at work.

 

[Arkhandus]

That seems snarky. And you forget the summoning of several fiendish apes; not something any 5th-level character could do, to my knowledge (even a wizard 5 would only be able to summon 1 per casting, and could only cast it maybe 3 times if conjuration-specialized)

 

[Artoomis]

A 5th level sorceror can cast 2nd level spells, all things being equal.

This gives Summon Monster II as a possible spell.

Fiendish Apes are a result of a Monster Summoning III (Third level). Unless he has some way of casting a third level spell, he cannot do that - at least not normally. Further, he could normally get only one of these.

However, maybe he has some way to change the rules for himself (feats or something?).

It looks, on the surface, that, at a minmum, the DM has been overly generous here. Perhaps you (the DM) need to learn how to say "No"

I suggest that if the character is not changed, some form of a balancing factor be applied in the future to make up for the overly-generous decisions to date. One way to do that would be to apply some similar adjustments to the other characters in the game - but that can tend to make the characer as a whole rather more powerful than their levels would indicate, which can cause other game problems.

 

[Dross]

1. As was clarified by the DM, he is Dragonborn, which is a LA+0 race. It is legal.

2. Mounts can be bought, or in this case, given as an RP perk. No feat needed. It is legal.

3. As a 5th level Sorcerer, he has access to 2nd level spells, which include, amongst other things: Touch of Idiocy (1d6 penalty to Int, Wis and Cha, can't go below 1), and Shivering Touch aka "Dragonkiller" (3d6 damage to Dex). Both of which he can channel through his familiar. The familiar doesn't even have to hit with a bite. It just has to succeed on a touch attack to deliver it. The bite is actually making it harder for the pet to deliver the spell as it has to be a successful attack to discharge it. It is not only legal, he is actually neutering the ability.

So, as far as I can see, all your suspicions are unfounded.

It seems that this is a player that knows his way around his feats, equipment, spells and abilities, and he is joining a group that is familiar with none of the above. Instead of trying to find out how he did it and learn from it, the group whines and whinges and tries to go behind his back and ask others in the hope of tripping him up and then collectively beating on him because, hey, they are *right*!

As for destroying games... Well, I wouldn't be surprised. Put a clued up science guy in front of someone that has never heard of fire, and you will see "magic" at work.

Could you tell me how he summons the fiendish apes (summon III) given that the caster can supposedly cast only summon II spell? And the aspect of Bahumat?

Cameron, neither of the spells you mention are called Phastial Killer. Aleolus can you confirm what the spell DungeonMaester is talking about? That may clear up a couple of things.

Also, since the DM Aleolus said that both the owl and the psuedo dragon familiar are roleplay gains, but the OP apparently didn't know that, it is likely that these were not gained at the same table as the other players. (Aleolus, can you confirm/deny this assumption of mine). If someone came to the table with all manner of flashy things that apparently break the rules, i'd like to know how it was done (even if only so I could do it).

The person in Q may simply know their way around the rules, spells etc, but given the apparent history, would you want to make sure? Especially since he apparently overpowers the other players enough to warrant coming here.

Also, remember that the OP came here to make sure that he was not off base with his suspicions. That could mean that DungeonMaester a) wanted to make sure of the rules, to try and minimise any angst in the group for a simple mis-understanding, or b) gain backing to turf the guy out.

But i'm not going to assume motives and just answer the Q's as asked.

 

[Darklone]

3. As a 5th level Sorcerer, he has access to 2nd level spells, which include, amongst other things: Touch of Idiocy (1d6 penalty to Int, Wis and Cha, can't go below 1), and Shivering Touch aka "Dragonkiller" (3d6 damage to Dex). Both of which he can channel through his familiar. The familiar doesn't even have to hit with a bite. It just has to succeed on a touch attack to deliver it. The bite is actually making it harder for the pet to deliver the spell as it has to be a successful attack to discharge it. It is not only legal, he is actually neutering the ability.

Shivering Touch... is not from SpC nor PHB... Dragon Magic? Draconomicon?

Allowing some of these books for one PC while the others don't know them is kinda tough. Certainly one PC will build his char more effective than the others if he knows the rules better, but in cases like these in place of the DM I would
- 1st: Tell the other players about it, have the player tell them about it and allow similar stuff for the others, and
- 2nd: would not buff such a char additionally with 1.5 of his starting treasure plus allow a feat that's two levels higher.

The 2nd point is less important, but talking is necessary.

Then about the dragon:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/pseudodragon.htm

Blindsense 60ft. and Telepathy are both potential gamebreakers for low levels. At level 7 this is ok for a feat but a level 5 char... Well, that depends on the power level of your campaign and the availability of additional sourcebooks.

And last but NOT least: Where did all these monkeys come from? MONKEYS!

 

[Aleolus]

Could you tell me how he summons the fiendish apes (summon III) given that the caster can supposedly cast only summon II spell? And the aspect of Bahumat?

Cameron, neither of the spells you mention are called Phastial Killer. Aleolus can you confirm what the spell DungeonMaester is talking about? That may clear up a couple of things.

Also, since the DM Aleolus said that both the owl and the psuedo dragon familiar are roleplay gains, but the OP apparently didn't know that, it is likely that these were not gained at the same table as the other players. (Aleolus, can you confirm/deny this assumption of mine). If someone came to the table with all manner of flashy things that apparently break the rules, i'd like to know how it was done (even if only so I could do it).

The person in Q may simply know their way around the rules, spells etc, but given the apparent history, would you want to make sure? Especially since he apparently overpowers the other players enough to warrant coming here.

Also, remember that the OP came here to make sure that he was not off base with his suspicions. That could mean that DungeonMaester a) wanted to make sure of the rules, to try and minimise any angst in the group for a simple mis-understanding, or b) gain backing to turf the guy out.

But i'm not going to assume motives and just answer the Q's as asked.

Yes, he did gain those at another table. As to giving out other bonuses to other chars to balance it out, I'm working on it. One char (who wanted to play a version of InuYasha), has a sword that gets to be super-strong once he levels up and gets the Legacy Feats for it, another is a Lizardman Monk doing voluntary poverty (Insane AC!), one is a Drow Fighter with Sub levels from Drow of the Underdark, Rusty is a human Cleric of Wee Jas, and I have a char who's a Soulborn. I mean to get stuff for each of them, but some of them it's kind of difficult. Rusty doesn't like breaking chars using magic items, because it's too easy to lose them, and the lizardman is voluntarily impoverished. What can he get that doesn't break that vow?

 

[Arkhandus]

....So many of the others have to actually pay in money and/or legacy penalties and/or precious, precious feat slots for similarly useful advantages...?

Well, anyway......
Vow of Poverty is broken anyway, so the lizardman probably doesn't need much to begin with. A benevolent mage or dragon (possibly seeking future recompense/favors) may grant him the benefits of a Wish as determined by the mage/dragon, so the lizardman might get the equivalent of a permanent Mage Armor or Greater Magic Fang or something else cast on him (though dispellable). Or just a companion creature of some sort.

The InuYasha wannabe might get zapped into a half-fiend or somesuch by an enemy, an ally, or a mysterious stranger, I dunno. Just keep in mind that the spell-like abilities granted by the half-fiend template are based on racial hit dice, not character level, so those won't really be a factor. Likewise, the template's SR value is based on racial HD, and the various adjustments to hit dice, BAB, skill points, etc. are only changes for racial HD.
Or just remove some of the penalties or whatnot that his stupid Legacy weapon is likely going to impose (I prefer the old 'leveling up weapons' article from Dragon Magazine, in the issue focusing on 3.0e Oriental Adventures, the issue with the Kaiju template and such).

The Drow Fighter could probably use some special fighting boons or skill boons to make him less underpowered compared to the casters and the new guy. Something like a wandering martial artist teaching him secret techniques (free level's worth of Warblade, Swordsage, Incarnate, Soulborn, or Totemist special abilities, maybe?) after recognizing some kind of special potential within him, maybe. Or giving him a free Tactical feat from Complete Warrior or Player's Handbook II that he qualifies for, or something else, I dunno. *shrug*

The Cleric could be entrusted with a minor relic or something of the Jasican faith, maybe, from a fellow priest. Might find something useable in the Magic Item Compendium but I dunno. Or receive a special blessing (and probably an accompanying minor quest to earn the right to keep it) from a divine servant of Wee Jas, which could take the form of 1 free level's worth of Incarnum stuff or Martial Adept stuff or a spell-like ability (Wee Jas is a goddess of magic, after all). Or gain some kind of undead servant that was a fellow follower of Wee Jas in his/her earlier life, maybe trying to serve penance for something through the agony of undeath and service to the Witch Goddess.