This mentality needs to die

[ExploderWizard]

The players are entrusting part of the creative and imaginative side of the game to whoever makes the setting. That doesn't mean they won't roleplay but it makes it likely that they won't get as involved in the design and personalisation of the game as a GMs who build their own campaigns based on their own and their players' imaginative input.

If the game's played at the end of everyone's working day, after a drive and in the middel of winter it's much easier to reach for the pre-packaged. Nothing wrong with that, especially if you wouldn't have a game otherwise.

At the same time though, part of what roleplaying games offer has been lost in asking others to help out.

I would say that this viewpoint isn't a universal truth. Some groups of players just won't care about the history of a podunk town they stroll into or any of its lovingly crafted NPC's. It won't matter if the DM picked it off a shelf of wrote every word personally. In fact, the DM who puts all that effort into worldbuilding for a group that doesn't care is wasting huge amounts of time.

Even within published settings there is room to create plenty of original material. If the DM is lucky enough to have a group that loves getting really into the setting then all that work can really enhance the game.

 

[pemerton]

Tactical combat is usually procedural and trained. Same subset of skills used over and over like learning tables.

This may be true of Runequest, where there are no round-by-round choices to be made about how combat skills are allocated (although there is the choice of whether to parry or to dodge).

It is not true of RPGs like 4e or Rolemaster, where the combat mechanics are designed to require round-by-round choices to be made by the players (eg choice of action in 4e, parry/OB split in RM).

In 4e there is also the need for the player to consider the range of options that p 42 of the DMG opens up in any given round.

Certainly, in play, it doesn't feel "procedural and trained".

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Actually, I wouldn't necessarily say that. You develop certain "procedures" to make decisions. But my point would be that you do that all the time. But I fail to see where there is ever a situation where you don't do that?

Standard Operating Procedure for meeting an NPC
- Fight, Flight or Talk?
- If Talk, Exchange Greetings
- Identify NPC
- Exchange information about respective goals.
- Convince other side of your goals, if any.
- Decide whether to help NPCs achieving his goals or fulfill his conditions
- Come to an Agreement

 

[Primal]

I don't think anyone still posting in this thread thinks Chris is a bad DM.

The worst anyone is saying is that it was a bad call.

Which, as you point out, is pretty subjective anyway.

I think his rep is safe, though.

Oh, yes; he could have handled that particular instance a bit better. Still, if you ask me, it's just a minor "glitch" in an otherwise fun session. I've watched all the clips, and I think he does a pretty good job with running the adventure for a group that includes several newbies.

 

[nedjer]

So?

In real life I don't use all my skills at once either.

When I'm at work I use my work-related skills.

When I'm in my car I use my driving skills.

When I'm doing this I'm using my typing skills* and-or diplomacy skills*.

And so on.

Yet I suspect I still add up to roughly the sum of my parts. The same goes for the game...its various parts add up to the sum total game. It says much about the game, in fact, that it even has such disparate parts to it; most games don't present nearly this much diversity within themselves.

* - there are persistent and probably accurate reports that suggest I am in fact possessed of neither of these skills; but for the sake of argument let's this time say I am, and carry on.

Lanefan

And that was the long held scientific view. Add enough procedures until you get incredibly complex routines that solve really complex problems. Trouble was this didn't cover how consciousness operates. A procedural approach, i.e. a long chain gang, would be too slow, too inflexible and too uncoordinated to result in consciousness and solve compelx problems.

As scanners got better this was largely confirmed, as brains lit up like Christmas trees when handling complex tasks, (especially at speed). It seems to follow that when you're driving along a straight road in good weather you can afford to go on 'auto-pilot'. However, when it's snowing, there are hungry kids in the car and you're hurtling down a motorway all kinds of skills can and may be called on. Some are driving skills but many more are transferable skills.

Basically, you're kind of underestimating yourself. You can play on autopilot and enjoy it but you're also easily capable of exploiting all that "diversity" and playing roleplaying games in a way that is more 'intense'.

 

[nedjer]

Wow. Just wow. So, people who don't spend hours out of game creating their own settings are now lesser roleplayers.

Nice. It couldn't possibly be that setting creation just holds no interest to some people and they don't want to engage in it. No, it's we're having less fun than those who create their own ships in a bottle.

That's a tabloid rewrite if ever I saw one. Nevertheless, home cooking tastes so much better than TV dinners.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Nevertheless, home cooking tastes so much better than TV dinners.

To continue you with your analogy...not if you don't have the skill and/or time to create better meals than the creators of TV dinners. Or maybe you actually like the taste of TV dinners better than home-cooked meals.

 

[jdrakeh]

Wow. Just wow. So, people who don't spend hours out of game creating their own settings are now lesser roleplayers.

Nice. It couldn't possibly be that setting creation just holds no interest to some people and they don't want to engage in it. No, it's we're having less fun than those who create their own ships in a bottle.

Shut up! You're doing it wrong!

 

[Plane Sailing]

That's a tabloid rewrite if ever I saw one. Nevertheless, home cooking tastes so much better than TV dinners.

To continue you with your analogy...not if you don't have the skill and/or time to create better meals than the creators of TV dinners. Or maybe you actually like the taste of TV dinners better than home-cooked meals.

I think that discussion has one as far as it can, folks. Lets drop this one now.

Thanks

 

[nedjer]

If a moderator asks you to drop a discussion, you need to drop it. - Thanks. Plane Sailing