What's Your Price Limit?

[GrimCo]

Only problem is, there is no universal way to determine what is fair price. It's completely subjective and depends on ratio of price and value you get out of product.

Best way would probably be - price with which both buyer and seller are reasonably satisfied.

 

[Morrus]

Only problem is, there is no universal way to determine what is fair price. It's completely subjective and depends on ratio of price and value you get out of product.

Best way would probably be - price with which both buyer and seller are reasonably satisfied.

The issue is the word 'charity' not 'fair price'.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

Paying a fair price for something isn't 'charity'.

Voluntarily paying over the market price is (and over the value you get). Paying a "fair" 50 € book is akin, if the regular market price of the book would be 30 € and the value you get for it is 30 €, to buy the product for 30 € (the commercial part of the price) and giving 20 € to the author on ko-fi (the charitable part of the price) . You don't get any return, but you're acting out of good heart. A powerful motivator, that I think however works better for "fairtrade cocoa" than "fair trade books from the first world". And I totally would call buying fairtrade product a charitable act.

Edit: you can call that "tipping" if you feel the word charity isn't fitting. And outside of the US, people don't tip a lot.

 

[Professor Murder]

Another issue: How often are new books released? And as a longtime consumer of gaming, how often are new editions released?

Ex: Chaosium puts out a new hardcover for Call of Cthulhu about 3-5 times a year which run $40-60. I can deal with that and don't buy every release. The current edition of the game is also around 10 years old. No talk I am aware of for a new edition. An edition of a game lasting 10+ years feels good and stable for me. I used to buy a LOT of White Wolf World of Darkness games, and some of their lines got new editions in under 3 years. Crazy.

 

[lynnfredricks]

Even if I can be convinced of that -- I have no opinion on this currently -- it won't affect my buying pattern. I trade money for a product based on the merit on the product. If I think it is going to bring me 20 € of value, I won't buy it 50 € even if it would allow authors to be paid better. I mean, I can see me doing that when buying coffee out of charity for East-African coffee planters (while thinking it's probably middlemen that benefit the most), but I don't feel charity is a factor when paying workforce in a country with similar or higher wealth level than mine. I am pretty sure I am not the only customer to think like that.

I think it can be a useful or valid excuse, because art is usually a fixed price.

One of the original, great values of crowdfunding is that it can remove the sting of having to put up so much money (including art) before making money. They used to reward supporters too with much better pricing, but that doesn't seem to happen quite as often.

If you are putting boxes / books into distribution, it can be a while before you see any gold, and distribution has its own problems (read any 'history of TSR' book).

But I think the most critical issue is that so many publishers have no idea what they are going to make and when they might break even, and that problem far predates the problem of tariffs.

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

I think it can be a useful or valid excuse, because art is usually a fixed price.

Indeed, while we can trust most producers to use effectively the increased revenue coming from the "fair price", there is always the risk that an unscrupulous one would just increase his own share. That's why fair trade labels are checked by third parties. Which isn't ideal, but better than nothing in term of fostering public trust.

 

[AnotherGuy]

I find these days for our current campaign, I only purchase content which assists the current storyline - whether it be a guide, storyline expansion, a future storyline (I know what I'm going to be running) or material that works with a player character or their background.
I'm just too invested in this campaign to spend my energies or my finances elsewhere particularly where history has taught me that our table just doesn't get around to other stuff. This may be my last campaign for all I know.

Like I have a listed a few items I wish to get when the time arrives...or has the storyline shifts.

 

[Cergorach]

Paying a fair price for something isn't 'charity'.

No, it isn't, but paying for something that you don't need for a price you're not otherwise willing to pay, is charity.

I see often people talking about products they'll buy to 'support' either their LFGS or publisher xyz, even though they don't actually 'use' either the gaming support at the LFGS or even read/use the product they bought. I consider that charity.

If you buy book xyz to read or game with, then you pay whatever price they set it at and you're willing to pay for it. And let's not forget that what is 'fair' is not clear, not even to the publisher. As an example, how often did we pick up RPG books from the bargain bin? While it was previously $40, it's now $10, because no one wanted to buy it at $40, not at $30, not at $20, but at $10, now you pick it up. In the same way, I paid $60 for three Paizo PDFs, and a couple of months later I got a Humble Bundle for Paizo products for $29 for dozens of products, including the three PDFs I bought at the MSRP PDF price.

'Fair' is a moving target, which relates to income of the purchaser and how often it will be used vs. what it costs to make by the seller and how many they expect to sell. But the reality of the market is that sellers sell at the price the market will bear, not what is 'fair'. Because if the 'fair' price is too high, they won't sell anything and they're stuck with product they can't move, too low and they're leaving money on the table in profits. In a normal market products with a too high a price just don't get made, in the pnp RPG market people are willing to work for peanuts, so it's extremely skewed in the first place.

Imho if the price of a product isn't 'fair', the publisher shouldn't be making it in the first place. If the money a writer/illustrator makes isn't 'fair' they shouldn't be working in the pnp RPG industry at all. But if you're willing to sell it to me for peanuts, who am I to say no? I ain't no saint!

And how would a saint price a product? What it costs to make (seller) or how much it is used (user)? Because a D&D PHB (or other system equivalent) would have a HUGE amount of value to someone that plays D&D weekly for the next decade, it would essentially be priceless. Compare that to a one shot adventure that you play one session, what about an adventure, or a campaign? A hammer has a different value to someone that uses it only to hammer in a nail to hang a picture vs. someone who builds their entire home with it. And what about someone that uses it daily for work...

Markets change, due to inflation, tariffs, costs, distribution shenanigans, etc. Even the buying behaviour of your customers will change due to external factors, ranging from technology advances (tablets and e-readers), to pandemics where people start playing online and afterward keep playing online. It wouldn't surprise me at ALL if the higher price of the Paizo books is due to projected sales prices of the physical books being worse then back in 2017. I know it's worse for SF2e then it's for PF2e Remastered from two years ago, which in turn is worse then the D&D 5e physical sales. While some still prefer physical books, some need physical books because for some reason they can't comfortably read books on a digital medium. But over time more and more people will prefer digital over physical, making physcial products even more expensive...

 

[Vael]

Limit is a nebulous thing. I will say, one of the reasons I jumped into Daggerheart was seeing a cheap pre-order price on Amazon, that was a good $15-20 cheaper than FLGSes, and even at full price ... the book and full set of cards definitely made me like I was getting good value for the money.

 

[lynnfredricks]

I know it's worse for SF2e then it's for PF2e Remastered from two years ago, which in turn is worse then the D&D 5e physical sales. While some still prefer physical books, some need physical books because for some reason they can't comfortably read books on a digital medium. But over time more and more people will prefer digital over physical, making physcial products even more expensive...

Or there may be some other transformative / disruptive force, such as a higher performance / better formatted wiki + (ouch) AI. I just started a campaign using some beta rules using Google Docs with a group split between video conference and 'in person,' and am surprised how well it is going.

I often ask myself - could I just as easily play the same game, with the same enjoyment, if I am using a B&W POD softcover. From that perspective, the shiny, full color art version has to prove itself for the difference in cost.

A separate issue which doesn't often get mentioned is the "microsoft" problem. That is, competing against a previous version. There has to be a value-add between versions, if I am purchasing upward.

In some cases, they can. The Dragonbane boxed set is just one example. And I will also point out that the current Call of Cthulhu 7th Edition Keeper's Book (pretty much all you need) can be purchased for about or under $50, which is also a very good value.